Storming the capitol

[KSig44]

Ksig44, I take your point. There were several things Trump undertook that were worthwhile (tax reform, building up the military, China trade policy, warp speed, etc.). But what the past four years have demonstrated is that even the best policies can be undone by overreach, wacky tweets, promoting easily discredited conspiracy theories (starting with the birther movement), and an abrasive personality that made good, talented people not want to work with him (Tillerson, several chiefs of staff, and a host of military leaders). In the end, his personality disorder resulted in his cult of personality doing the unthinkable. It will cost him his legacy and may damage the Republican Party for several election cycles to come.

And what will hurt the GOP is the abandonment of Trump and it was evident in the GOP Senate runoff. I watched the night live streaming with Richard Baris (has a site called the People's Pundit, has been in polling for 20 years roughly. Great insight) and he could tell by early returns the GOP was in trouble and particularly in the SE area of the state which is Trump country. They fact they didn't accept him and promise to challenge the election results hurt them with those voters and they didn't show. Media will say it was due to Trump but it was failure to accept Trump and they lost. So now you have a splintering off of the Trump populists and we will see if they have a short memory in 2 years. You could see the branching of a third party which probably means a 20 year run of democrat wins. Thank McConnell and the RNC for that, they can't read their base like in Georgia.

 

[Aggie98nHouston]

Seems odd some of the same posters who defended a horrible lawyer and his wife who pointed guns at people walking down a street are mad that someone used a gun against a protestor inside the f-ing Capital. It’s the US capital people.

Figured we’d have one of those badass Robocop 2 things on patrol.

I would have bet anything that if anyone breaks a window and climbs into the capital building while Congress is in session they would be shot immediately.

 

[oldag1980]

You think she was in a space that was open to the public? You’re probably not going to get a lot of traction with that argument.

I think so. That cop needs to be charged with murder and tried. Let the courts decide if his life was in danger and thus a justified killing. Just like all the other officer shootings in this country.

 

[oldag1980]

My notifications say different

hahahahahaha!

 

[oldag1980]

Maybe you should use this opportunity to find that politics are politics and not a reason to storm the capital? We all have different opinions...storming the capital is not an option.

Trump is a fraud and criminal. Your own party leaders have stated this. Get a grip. Be a good Ag and pull your head out of your ass!

If not, we welcome your demis!

Fraud and criminal? Please elaborate. Your opinion of Biden's activities would be helpful also.

 

[CheekySchneider]

I think so. That cop needs to be charged with murder and tried. Let the courts decide if his life was in danger and thus a justified killing. Just like all the other officer shootings in this country.

Well, I think you’re wrong. Guns were drawn by all cops at the scene at the time she was shot. She was in an unauthorized area inside the building and a threat to enter a more secure area. Based on what I saw (and I’ve seen the video), the cop could not know the severity of threat the lady and the group of trespassers she was with presented. She stepped up to a barricaded area with very nervous law enforcement holding steady with guns drawn on the other side and unfortunately was met with deadly force.

 

[BDB99]

Ksig44, I take your point. There were several things Trump undertook that were worthwhile (tax reform, building up the military, China trade policy, warp speed, etc.). But what the past four years have demonstrated is that even the best policies can be undone by overreach, wacky tweets, promoting easily discredited conspiracy theories (starting with the birther movement), and an abrasive personality that made good, talented people not want to work with him (Tillerson, several chiefs of staff, and a host of military leaders). In the end, his personality disorder resulted in his cult of personality doing the unthinkable. It will cost him his legacy and may damage the Republican Party for several election cycles to come.

Bullshit. The republicans did that to themselves. Trump brought millions of new blood to the Republican Party and that new blood will leave it. The Republican Party is done and democrats will destroy the country as they have promised and it’s the Republican Party at fault. Not Trump. You and the media can keep pushing your narrative but it’s false. All those black and Latino’s that voted for trump will not run back to the democrats and republicans just screwed themselves for a decade. China is the winner her and it’s good to see you so happy about iy

 

[KSig44]

I would have bet anything that if anyone breaks a window and climbs into the capital building while Congress is in session they would be shot immediately.

What happened to all the non lethal talk we had over the summer? And I thought tear gas was a chemical gas attack, wasn't that how it was re-defined?

That being said, I don't have issue with the non-lethal in this. Tear gas, rubber bullets, have at it. Guns were a last resort and I am not seeing footage that was to last resort yet. A woman jumping through a window is not last last resort. There was only one shot fired in this and it was by a capitol policeman, I doubt all options were exhausted for him to do this, especially when you see the crowd react to the cops that are behind them in this, they all back up and become "orderly".

 

[KSig44]

Well, I think you’re wrong. Guns were drawn by all cops at the scene at the time she was shot. She was in an unauthorized area inside the building and a threat to enter a more secure area. Based on what I saw (and I’ve seen the video), the cop could not know the severity of threat the lady and the group of trespassers she was with presented. She stepped up to a barricaded area with very nervous law enforcement holding steady with guns drawn on the other side and unfortunately was met with deadly force.

Well, the incoming president advocates shooting them in the leg. They didn't follow suit with his recommendations.

 

[Aggie98nHouston]

What happened to all the non lethal talk we had over the summer? And I thought tear gas was a chemical gas attack, wasn't that how it was re-defined?

That being said, I don't have issue with the non-lethal in this. Tear gas, rubber bullets, have at it. Guns were a last resort and I am not seeing footage that was to last resort yet. A woman jumping through a window is not last last resort. There was only one shot fired in this and it was by a capitol policeman, I doubt all options were exhausted for him to do this, especially when you see the crowd react to the cops that are behind them in this, they all back up and become "orderly".

I am just saying I would assume breaking into the capital and trying to get into the senate chambers while in session and the V.P. was there was a death sentence. I have to believe if some tried to crash through the window of the oval office they don't live through that either. I was clearly wrong for the most part, which is good because I don't want to see people shot and killed.

This just isn't on the same level as allegedly passing a counterfeit $10 bill or whatever.

 

[travster23]

I think so. That cop needs to be charged with murder and tried. Let the courts decide if his life was in danger and thus a justified killing. Just like all the other officer shootings in this country.

Maybe she shouldn’t have broken the law, and should have obeyed the officer’s orders.

 

[travster23]

Now an officer is dead as well. Who all should be charged for that?

 

[KSig44]

Now an officer is dead as well. Who all should be charged for that?

From what I read it was a heart issue, do we charge for heart attacks?

 

[KSig44]

I am just saying I would assume breaking into the capital and trying to get into the senate chambers while in session and the V.P. was there was a death sentence. I have to believe if some tried to crash through the window of the oval office they don't live through that either. I was clearly wrong for the most part, which is good because I don't want to see people shot and killed.

This just isn't on the same level as allegedly passing a counterfeit $10 bill or whatever.

It has been different. If this was a cop on black shooting from the summer we would have known his name by now as he was dragged through the news. Haven't heard that yet.

What I am saying is when they evaluate the threat level they would have seen no guns on the other side and I am sure the Capitol is armed with the latest tech in crowd control. Guns should have been holstered for all other options based on the threat level. This was the definition of non-lethal. And as far as murder charges, I don't think it's that high if at all.

 

[travster23]

From what I read it was a heart issue, do we charge for heart attacks?

Like George Floyd?

 

[KSig44]

Like George Floyd?

Show me the protester with a knee on the cops neck.

 

[travster23]

Show me the protester with a knee on the cops neck.

The officer died as result of injuries caused by protesters. Quit disseminating. You know better.

 

[KSig44]

The officer died as result of injuries caused by protesters. Quit disseminating. You know better.

Apples to apples this isn't. The cops in Floyds case added to his distress level and they have paid a price for it. There in no singular person causing the trauma, it's a situation. You aren't charging 20k people with manslaughter, not happening.

 

[dad_in_tx]

Like George Floyd?

... so you’re saying the protesters SHOULD have burnt and looted the Capital then?

 

[Reckless75]

Now an officer is dead as well. Who all should be charged for that?

Obama got 5 of them killed in Dallas.

And more across the country due to his rhetoric.

Let's start with him.

 

[Reckless75]

Apples to apples this isn't. The cops in Floyds case added to his distress level and they have paid a price for it. There in no singular person causing the trauma, it's a situation. You aren't charging 20k people with manslaughter, not happening.

The narrative by the media and Dem leaders is pushing the idea that everyone in D.C. that day and was in the crowd on the Capitol grounds should be labeled terrorists and anarchists.

 

[Reckless75]

Obama got 5 of them killed in Dallas.

And more across the country due to his rhetoric.

Let's start with him.

And this is not "whataboutism".

It's about what brought all this about.

 

[Agswag12]

This thread shows what’s really eating away at our country. One side justifies mob actions that threatened our constitution process by saying that those actions are no different than demonstrations that resulted in looting in other parts of the country. When the other side had already acknowledged that looting and criminal damage is wrong and shouldn’t be tolerated, even going beyond that to say that it detracts and undermines the causes that the demonstrators are promoting, those condemnations are ignored in order to promote the false equivalency argument. The Floyd family said that vioence, looting, criminal damage was wrong and shouldn’t be part of the demonstration, Biden said that, and a host of leaders who supported the protestors also said that. In other words, they condemned the violence. Even Trump has now, under pressure, condemned it. Yet several posters on here appear to claim that the two events (storming the Capital to prevent the ratification of the electoral college results and social justice protests that led to looting are exactly the same). What’s even more troubling is the view that somehow, Trump’s means are justified by the ends (preventing D’s from assuming the presidency). Our country was founded on the principle that the minority accepts the results of election outcomes.

 

[Agswag12]

The narrative by the media and Dem leaders is pushing the idea that everyone in D.C. that day and was in the crowd on the Capitol grounds should be labeled terrorists and anarchists.

I certainly haven’t heard that narrative. I‘ve hear them label those who broke into the Capital as people engaging in insurrection. How would you label them? Can’t we all at least agree that those who broke into the Capital to disrupt the certification of the electoral college vote were in the wrong? What’s your position on that?

 

[KSig44]

This thread shows what’s really eating away at our country. One side justifies mob actions that threatened our constitution process by saying that those actions are no different than demonstrations that resulted in looting in other parts of the country. When the other side had already acknowledged that looting and criminal damage is wrong and shouldn’t be tolerated, even going beyond that to say that it detracts and undermines the causes that the demonstrators are promoting, those condemnations are ignored in order to promote the false equivalency argument. The Floyd family said that vioence, looting, criminal damage was wrong and shouldn’t be part of the demonstration, Biden said that, and a host of leaders who supported the protestors also said that. In other words, they condemned the violence. Even Trump has now, under pressure, condemned it. Yet several posters on here appear to claim that the two events (storming the Capital to prevent the ratification of the electoral college results and social justice protests that led to looting are exactly the same). What’s even more troubling is the view that somehow, Trump’s means are justified by the ends (preventing D’s from assuming the presidency). Our country was founded on the principle that the minority accepts the results of election outcomes.

Shall we check the time lines it took Trump to condemn the Capitol riot to hoe long it took Biden to condemn the BLM riots after Floyds death. Trump within 24 hours, Biden....well close to a month. I remember it being a major pushback in the campaign that the dems candidates would not condemn the BLM riots. I even posted a article that links Harris saying the Protesters won't stop...nor should they.

Most on here condemn what happened Wednesday, but in seeing it was pure MAGA is disingenuous. There have been photo recognition of a few people there that are linked to outside groups that are very much non-MAGA. Lots of personal video and interviews from those there that talk about having the crowd yelling and fighting off a few individuals trying to destroy and damage the building. I am not blaming the whole thing on the outside group, the lady that died was MAGA and she was clearly in the building, but it's not outside political games to have opposing groups show up when the dates are given in advance to act like part of the group only to do harm in the name of that group. Also see pictures of protesters in black tactical gear, MAGA protesters don't dress like that, but I know of one group that does.

 

[Agswag12]

And this is not "whataboutism".

It's about what brought all this about.

I had forgotten about Obama demanding that a mob go out and kill 5 policemen in Dallas. Yeah, that must have been what started all this.

The extent to which people are willing to twist facts to shift blame is remarkable.

 

[KSig44]

I certainly haven’t heard that narrative. I‘ve hear them label those who broke into the Capital have been labeled people engaging in insurrection. How would you label them? Can’t we all at least agree that those who broke into the Capital to disrupt the certification of the electoral college vote were in the wrong? What’s your position on that?

Hell of an insurrection attempt when you don't bring weapons. Need to apply a little logic to the situation, the media sure won't apply any to the story.

 

[KSig44]

I had forgotten about Obama demanding that a mob go out and kill 5 policemen in Dallas. Yeah, that must have been what started all this.

The extent to which people are willing to twist facts to shift blame is remarkable.

About as much logic in that as there is in saying Trump called for the riot and storm the capitol when all he mentioned was walking up there. When you riot,usually you use the term march.

 

[Aggie98nHouston]

It has been different. If this was a cop on black shooting from the summer we would have known his name by now as he was dragged through the news. Haven't heard that yet.

What I am saying is when they evaluate the threat level they would have seen no guns on the other side and I am sure the Capitol is armed with the latest tech in crowd control. Guns should have been holstered for all other options based on the threat level. This was the definition of non-lethal. And as far as murder charges, I don't think it's that high if at all.

Read this and watch the video in it of the shooting from four angles. They were breaking into the House Chambers through a broken glass window because there was a barricade with officers pointing guns at her. She was the first to go through and was shot about half way through the window.

I do not understand this group calling that murder. A mob broke through a barricade and was going to the House of Representatives chamber while members were there and charging armed police.

The Journey of Ashli Babbitt - bellingcat

Retracing the final steps of the woman killed by police during the storm of the US Capitol.

www.bellingcat.com

 

[Agswag12]

Shall we check the time lines it took Trump to condemn the Capitol riot to hoe long it took Biden to condemn the BLM riots after Floyds death. Trump within 24 hours, Biden....well close to a month. I remember it being a major pushback in the campaign that the dems candidates would not condemn the BLM riots. I even posted a article that links Harris saying the Protesters won't stop...nor should they.

Most on here condemn what happened Wednesday, but in seeing it was pure MAGA is disingenuous. There have been photo recognition of a few people there that are linked to outside groups that are very much non-MAGA. Lots of personal video and interviews from those there that talk about having the crowd yelling and fighting off a few individuals trying to destroy and damage the building. I am not blaming the whole thing on the outside group, the lady that died was MAGA and she was clearly in the building, but it's not outside political games to have opposing groups show up when the dates are given in advance to act like part of the group only to do harm in the name of that group. Also see pictures of protesters in black tactical gear, MAGA protesters don't dress like that, but I know of one group that does.

I’m going to stop on this. At least we’re down to timelines. The Floyd family condemned the following day. Trump only condemned the people that “we love you” did all this the day after because he was under tremendous pressure with threats of the 25th amendment being invoked. His role in fanning the flames of the crowd, along with Rudy and Don Jr., are what set this apart, in my judgment, from the events of this summer. I realize many on here won’t be convinced, regardless of the arguments, but I suspect there is a high degree of discomfort among that crowd, even if they’re unwilling to own up to that discomfort on here.

 

[KSig44]

Read this and watch the video in it of the shooting from four angles. They were breaking into the House Chambers through a broken glass window because there was a barricade with officers pointing guns at her. She was the first to go through and was shot about half way through the window.

I do not understand this group calling that murder. A mob broke through a barricade and was going to the House of Representatives chamber while members were there and charging armed police.

The Journey of Ashli Babbitt - bellingcat

Retracing the final steps of the woman killed by police during the storm of the US Capitol.

www.bellingcat.com

I didn't call it murder, but I am sure the Capitol has many non lethal options for crowd control and they should have been exhausted. They should have seen that the group was not armed and realized this. Only one shot happened and it was the cop.

 

[dad_in_tx]

This thread shows what’s really eating away at our country. One side justifies mob actions that threatened our constitution process by saying that those actions are no different than demonstrations that resulted in looting in other parts of the country. When the other side had already acknowledged that looting and criminal damage is wrong and shouldn’t be tolerated, even going beyond that to say that it detracts and undermines the causes that the demonstrators are promoting, those condemnations are ignored in order to promote the false equivalency argument. The Floyd family said that vioence, looting, criminal damage was wrong and shouldn’t be part of the demonstration, Biden said that, and a host of leaders who supported the protestors also said that. In other words, they condemned the violence. Even Trump has now, under pressure, condemned it. Yet several posters on here appear to claim that the two events (storming the Capital to prevent the ratification of the electoral college results and social justice protests that led to looting are exactly the same). What’s even more troubling is the view that somehow, Trump’s means are justified by the ends (preventing D’s from assuming the presidency). Our country was founded on the principle that the minority accepts the results of election outcomes.

Let me flip back through the pages of our history books to Jan 2017 ...

Right!

You don’t get a free four years of shiting on my President and then expect me to just take one for the team. Not going to happen.

Now, you want some peace? Let’s see what happens in your first 100 days. If you press this bullshit agenda of yours, it won’t be fun.

 

[KSig44]

I’m going to stop on this. At least we’re down to timelines. The Floyd family condemned the following day. Trump only condemned the people that “we love you” did all this the day after because he was under tremendous pressure with threats of the 25th amendment being invoked. His role in fanning the flames of the crowd, along with Rudy and Don Jr., are what set this apart, in my judgment, from the events of this summer. I realize many on here won’t be convinced, regardless of the arguments, but I suspect there is a high degree of discomfort among that crowd, even if they’re unwilling to own up to that discomfort on here.

Not talking the Floyd family, what about the Dems and how long they took? That was your original stance right? They are the power brokers that should be listened too. Fact is I can find more speeches from teh left that are FAR more incendiary from Harris to Maxine Waters than Trump gave Wednesday. And it's not even close. To call it some sort of war cry again is disingenuous by the media.

 

[bcg_2006]

Shall we check the time lines it took Trump to condemn the Capitol riot to hoe long it took Biden to condemn the BLM riots after Floyds death. Trump within 24 hours, Biden....well close to a month. I remember it being a major pushback in the campaign that the dems candidates would not condemn the BLM riots. I even posted a article that links Harris saying the Protesters won't stop...nor should they.

Most on here condemn what happened Wednesday, but in seeing it was pure MAGA is disingenuous. There have been photo recognition of a few people there that are linked to outside groups that are very much non-MAGA. Lots of personal video and interviews from those there that talk about having the crowd yelling and fighting off a few individuals trying to destroy and damage the building. I am not blaming the whole thing on the outside group, the lady that died was MAGA and she was clearly in the building, but it's not outside political games to have opposing groups show up when the dates are given in advance to act like part of the group only to do harm in the name of that group. Also see pictures of protesters in black tactical gear, MAGA protesters don't dress like that, but I know of one group that does.

 

[Reckless75]

I certainly haven’t heard that narrative. I‘ve hear them label those who broke into the Capital as people engaging in insurrection. How would you label them? Can’t we all at least agree that those who broke into the Capital to disrupt the certification of the electoral college vote were in the wrong? What’s your position on that?

I label the one or two thousand (or however many) individuals that may have forcefully entered the Capitol Building as fringe nutcases. And I sincerely believe there were individuals there that were members of the far, far right, and the far, far left..........shoulder to shoulder as they entered. Both factions there seeking anarchy. And they both will do it at every opportunity. They breathe for opportunities like on the 6th.

Breaking into the Capitol to disrupt the certification of the electoral college vote was absolutely wrong. And those who did should be prosecuted.

Peacefully assembling a mass of people numbering 200,00-500,000 to make noise and voice their concerns, like the outstanding majority of participants did on Wednesday, is what the first amendment is about. Not breaking and entering, vandalizing, looting and burning and seeking to destroy.

Unfortunately, many use the 1st amendment as a tool to justify looting and burning.

And historically, when a people are no longer to achieve relief, either at the polls or through peaceful protests, then violent disruptions become the tool of choice.

What is your position on the individuals that set D.C. and many other cities ablaze earlier in the year in "protests" against Trump and/or Republicans? Was it wrong for the Federal building in Portland to be taken over, looted, and occupied by "protestors"? Should they have been shot, or arrested, or at least forced to leave?

 

[Agswag12]

I label the one or two thousand (or however many) individuals that may have forcefully entered the Capitol Building as fringe nutcases. And I sincerely believe there were individuals there that were members of the far, far right, and the far, far left..........shoulder to shoulder as they entered. Both factions there seeking anarchy. And they both will do it at every opportunity. They breathe for opportunities like on the 6th.

Breaking into the Capitol to disrupt the certification of the electoral college vote was absolutely wrong. And those who did should be prosecuted.

Peacefully assembling a mass of people numbering 200,00-500,000 to make noise and voice their concerns, like the outstanding majority of participants did on Wednesday, is what the first amendment is about. Not breaking and entering, vandalizing, looting and burning and seeking to destroy.

Unfortunately, many use the 1st amendment as a tool to justify looting and burning.

And historically, when a people are no longer to achieve relief, either at the polls or through peaceful protests, then violent disruptions become the tool of choice.

What is your position on the individuals that set D.C. and many other cities ablaze earlier in the year in "protests" against Trump and/or Republicans? Was it wrong for the Federal building in Portland to be taken over, looted, and occupied by "protestors"? Should they have been shot, or arrested, or at least forced to leave?

We are absolutely on the same page. I will always respect first amendment rights and condemn rioting, looting, property damage, physical violence against others, etc. That goes for DC, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, Manhattan, Milwaukee, and anywhere else. I don’t believe violence is justified when people don’t get their way at the polls, or through peaceful protests, any more than I think BLM is justified in resorting to violence when police officers are not charged. I‘m not implying that you were advocating that, just to be clear, but I want to go on record that I don’t think any of those outcomes justify violence and the destruction of property.

 

[Reckless75]

I do find it laughable that all the media and Democrat leaders and a few Republican leaders have synced their steps and are calling the entire assembly of people in D.C. as Trump's Mob. Several stating that it was a well orchestrated and thought out coup attempt to overthrow the government.

I don't know the actual number in the crowd on Wednesday. From the photos I've seen and comparing them to crowds in football stadiums and old photos of the crowd at Woodstock, I would guess there had to be two or three hundred thousand in attendance.

That being said, if it had actually been a coup attempt, the Capitol would be occupied by a new regime today, and the old government would be trying to put together a retaliatory offensive.

A force of 250,000 intent on overthrowing the government won't show up with flags, caps and t-shirts.

And there will always be the lunatics in the crowd with a gun, or a knife, or a homemade bomb, just waiting for an opportunity to get their name recorded in history.

 

[AginAf III]

And what will hurt the GOP is the abandonment of Trump and it was evident in the GOP Senate runoff. I watched the night live streaming with Richard Baris (has a site called the People's Pundit, has been in polling for 20 years roughly. Great insight) and he could tell by early returns the GOP was in trouble and particularly in the SE area of the state which is Trump country. They fact they didn't accept him and promise to challenge the election results hurt them with those voters and they didn't show. Media will say it was due to Trump but it was failure to accept Trump and they lost. So now you have a splintering off of the Trump populists and we will see if they have a short memory in 2 years. You could see the branching of a third party which probably means a 20 year run of democrat wins. Thank McConnell and the RNC for that, they can't read their base like in Georgia.

The larger issue is the failure of the frightened Supreme Court to look at the evidence of election fraud. That means the American Body Politic has lost control of its own Electoral Process, and its in the hands criminals.

 

[AginAf III]

I do find it laughable that all the media and Democrat leaders and a few Republican leaders have synced their steps and are calling the entire assembly of people in D.C. as Trump's Mob. Several stating that it was a well orchestrated and thought out coup attempt to overthrow the government.

I don't know the actual number in the crowd on Wednesday. From the photos I've seen and comparing them to crowds in football stadiums and old photos of the crowd at Woodstock, I would guess there had to be two or three hundred thousand in attendance.

That being said, if it had actually been a coup attempt, the Capitol would be occupied by a new regime today, and the old government would be trying to put together a retaliatory offensive.

A force of 250,000 intent on overthrowing the government won't show up with flags, caps and t-shirts.

And there will always be the lunatics in the crowd with a gun, or a knife, or a homemade bomb, just waiting for an opportunity to get their name recorded in history.

Dr King's objectives saw fruition, and he and his staff rigorously enforced PEACEFUL gathering to protest as stipulated in our law and Constitution in the form of the 1st Amendment.

 

[KSig44]

The larger issue is the failure of the frightened Supreme Court to look at the evidence of election fraud. That means the American Body Politic has lost control of its own Electoral Process, and its in the hands criminals.

That wasn't the case presented to the SC. What they were asked to rule on were these state legislatures being circumvented in election law within those states as dictated by the Constitution by in state SC and governors who don't have the power to dictate election law. To say Texas doesn't have standing in a case that is about the Constitution which is a contract between states (you were either one of the 13 that ratified it or the 37 that had to agree to it to be part of the U.S.) is just wrong. Where else to disputed between states get heard?