To Mask or Not to Mask that is the question?

[cdean]

We talking 2 N95 masks or a cotton cloth. Cloth no, look at Ca.

This I believe is true. The wife’s company had a training session on this (EHS type content) and they had data that showed N95 was significantly better than a typical home made clothe mask.

They had some guidance that homemade masks needed to be double or triple layers of material laid with fibers crossing directions.

you essentially need to make sure your breathe takes a zigzag route to get out the mask. So the moisture droplets get caught.

if your breathe all leaks out the side or top.... it ain’t doing as much good.

That made a lot of sense to me and the cone heads in charge of public education on the topic could have prevented the disastrous politicization of it by putting out more common sense explanations like this.

 

[RageBot]

I'm sure I'll get killed for this, but I don't care. The logic behind wearing a surgical mask is a based on initial thoughts that the virus can only be transmitted through airborne droplets and surface contamination. And if true, it would make sense.

But it's now apparent that the virus is transmitted through aerosolized particulates, which basically renders surgical masks ineffective. Look at it this way - the reason Fauci initially said not to purchase N95 masks is because they are not effective unless properly fitted. Physicians actually have to get certified for this.

Now think about the fit of a surgical mask. It's such a bad fit I've got condensation all over my glasses and air running out of all sides. Sure, a surgical mask is going to catch a certain percentage of the virus, so it's really a matter of what viral load is necessary to for transmission. We didn't know the answer last time I checked, but the massive spread suggests it's pretty low.

Finally, what do you think is more likely to get someone sick: the guy across the room or the surgical mask he's kept in his car for a week?

Now I don't believe there's some nefarious conspiracy behind the mask mandates. I think it's more a matter of politicians needing to point to something they've done to combat the spread. As for the rest of us, some people cling to the notion because they're afraid and it makes them feel safe. It makes some feel like they're more compassionate or intelligent. And to be fair, some people are adamantly opposing masks for the same reasons or just to feel like they are fighting against the power.

However, I do not believe that a cloth or surgical mask is really any defense against COVID. If it were, we'd see much different numbers in the US.

 

[slgilmore]

California has vaccinated 3% more of there population, and the death rate is lower than Texas. Deaths per 100k is 134 compared to 152 for Texas. They also have a more dense population. Get your selective fact shit out of here. They did not have lockdowns. They put a mask rule in place June 18, Texas was July 2nd.

They’re still in lock down. Talk about selective “facts”

 

[IDRILL4GASOIL]

I'm sure I'll get killed for this, but I don't care. The logic behind wearing a surgical mask is a based on initial thoughts that the virus can only be transmitted through airborne droplets and surface contamination. And if true, it would make sense.

But it's now apparent that the virus is transmitted through aerosolized particulates, which basically renders surgical masks ineffective. Look at it this way - the reason Fauci initially said not to purchase N95 masks is because they are not effective unless properly fitted. Physicians actually have to get certified for this.

Now think about the fit of a surgical mask. It's such a bad fit I've got condensation all over my glasses and air running out of all sides. Sure, a surgical mask is going to catch a certain percentage of the virus, so it's really a matter of what viral load is necessary to for transmission. We didn't know the answer last time I checked, but the massive spread suggests it's pretty low.

Finally, what do you think is more likely to get someone sick: the guy across the room or the surgical mask he's kept in his car for a week?

Now I don't believe there's some nefarious conspiracy behind the mask mandates. I think it's more a matter of politicians needing to point to something they've done to combat the spread. As for the rest of us, some people cling to the notion because they're afraid and it makes them feel safe. It makes some feel like they're more compassionate or intelligent. And to be fair, some people are adamantly opposing masks for the same reasons or just to feel like they are fighting against the power.

However, I do not believe that a cloth or surgical mask is really any defense against COVID. If it were, we'd see much different numbers in the US.

Early on the did not want a run on N95 because there was a shortage. So they did what ws needed to protect the medical community. I understand. But now as you have pointed out and there is plenty of evidence. Masks for the most part don't work.

 

[ArmyTanker]

Small island nations

Can I Travel To Japan Now? March 2021
At present, all tourists and businesspeople are barred from entering the country. Japan has tightened restrictions due to the new Covid-19 variants.

Two letters: UK

 

[figmo1]

I'm sure I'll get killed for this, but I don't care. The logic behind wearing a surgical mask is a based on initial thoughts that the virus can only be transmitted through airborne droplets and surface contamination. And if true, it would make sense.

But it's now apparent that the virus is transmitted through aerosolized particulates, which basically renders surgical masks ineffective. Look at it this way - the reason Fauci initially said not to purchase N95 masks is because they are not effective unless properly fitted. Physicians actually have to get certified for this.

Now think about the fit of a surgical mask. It's such a bad fit I've got condensation all over my glasses and air running out of all sides. Sure, a surgical mask is going to catch a certain percentage of the virus, so it's really a matter of what viral load is necessary to for transmission. We didn't know the answer last time I checked, but the massive spread suggests it's pretty low.

Finally, what do you think is more likely to get someone sick: the guy across the room or the surgical mask he's kept in his car for a week?

Now I don't believe there's some nefarious conspiracy behind the mask mandates. I think it's more a matter of politicians needing to point to something they've done to combat the spread. As for the rest of us, some people cling to the notion because they're afraid and it makes them feel safe. It makes some feel like they're more compassionate or intelligent. And to be fair, some people are adamantly opposing masks for the same reasons or just to feel like they are fighting against the power.

However, I do not believe that a cloth or surgical mask is really any defense against COVID. If it were, we'd see much different numbers in the US.

You analysis doesn't align with this scientific analysis of existing studies: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118


Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34).

Models suggest that public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high (39). We recommend that mask use requirements are implemented by governments, or, when governments do not, by organizations that provide public-facing services. Such mandates must be accompanied by measures to ensure access to masks, possibly including distribution and rationing mechanisms so that they do not become discriminatory. Given the value of the source control principle, especially for presymptomatic people, it is not sufficient for only employees to wear masks; customers must wear masks as well.

It is also important for health authorities to provide clear guidelines for the production, use, and sanitization or reuse of face masks, and consider their distribution as shortages allow. Clear and implementable guidelines can help increase compliance, and bring communities closer to the goal of reducing and ultimately stopping the spread of COVID-19.

When used in conjunction with widespread testing, contact tracing, quarantining of anyone that may be infected, hand washing, and physical distancing, face masks are a valuable tool to reduce community transmission. All of these measures, through their effect on Re, have the potential to reduce the number of infections. As governments exit lockdowns, keeping transmissions low enough to preserve health care capacity will be critical until a vaccine can be developed.

 

[offshore ag]

Two letters: UK

Also an island.

Also with significant restrictions on travel.


If you’re travelling to England you must either quarantine in the place you’re staying or in a managed quarantine hotel for 10 days because of coronavirus (COVID-19). What you need to do depends on where you travel in the 10 days before you arrive in England.

You must also get 2 coronavirus tests after you arrive in England. You’ll need to book these before you travel.


Before you leave for the UK
You’ll need to:

• complete a passenger locator form
• provide proof of a negative coronavirus test

 

[Mark93]

Masks can be stylish. Wear your fav Aggie mask and be proud my brothers.

 

[IDRILL4GASOIL]

You analysis doesn't align with this scientific analysis of existing studies: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118


Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34).

Models suggest that public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high (39). We recommend that mask use requirements are implemented by governments, or, when governments do not, by organizations that provide public-facing services. Such mandates must be accompanied by measures to ensure access to masks, possibly including distribution and rationing mechanisms so that they do not become discriminatory. Given the value of the source control principle, especially for presymptomatic people, it is not sufficient for only employees to wear masks; customers must wear masks as well.

It is also important for health authorities to provide clear guidelines for the production, use, and sanitization or reuse of face masks, and consider their distribution as shortages allow. Clear and implementable guidelines can help increase compliance, and bring communities closer to the goal of reducing and ultimately stopping the spread of COVID-19.

When used in conjunction with widespread testing, contact tracing, quarantining of anyone that may be infected, hand washing, and physical distancing, face masks are a valuable tool to reduce community transmission. All of these measures, through their effect on Re, have the potential to reduce the number of infections. As governments exit lockdowns, keeping transmissions low enough to preserve health care capacity will be critical until a vaccine can be developed.

It amazes me we can provide real world data on why it doesn't work and you guys continue to ignore and follow up with a study.

 

[ArmyTanker]

Also an island.

Also with significant restrictions on travel.


If you’re travelling to England you must either quarantine in the place you’re staying or in a managed quarantine hotel for 10 days because of coronavirus (COVID-19). What you need to do depends on where you travel in the 10 days before you arrive in England.

You must also get 2 coronavirus tests after you arrive in England. You’ll need to book these before you travel.


Before you leave for the UK
You’ll need to:

• complete a passenger locator form
• provide proof of a negative coronavirus test

Yes but this island nation (UK) has a higher per capita death rate than the US. The status as an island nation is not necessarily the moderating variable in regards to the extent of the pandemic.

 

[oldmanp03]

Yes but this island nation (UK) has a higher per capita death rate than the US.

THey also have a mask mandate....soooo explain that.

 

[offshore ag]

Yes but this island nation (UK) has a higher per capita death rate than the US.

...which proves what point?

 

[figmo1]

It amazes me we can provide real world data on why it doesn't work and you guys continue to ignore and follow up with a study.

LOL Yes I should trust your incorrect analysis over a scientific analysis of existing data.

 

[IDRILL4GASOIL]

LOL Yes I should trust your incorrect analysis over a scientific analysis of existing data.

LOL There is more than one science. Depending on the day.

 

[56ag]

Early in this process I watched a video of water vapors spread when breathing, coughing and sneezing. Makes common sense to reduce the spread by capturing some of those vapors. Irony is I take off my mask when I sneeze to prevent snuff from ruining my mask

 

[superag1000]

Maybe we should try focusing on protecting the vulnerable who are much more likely to die from Covid instead of universal lockdowns and mask use. Many of our national health experts want us to wear masks forever regardless of Covid. FYI I don't mind wearing masks even if it is probably a partial pacebo but does help some. Why don't our genius national health experts spend 95% of their time focusing on strategies that focus on protecting the most vulnerable and allow the other 99% to live a more normal life. You don't have to be a scientist to see that they choose the route that affects the 99% greatly. And just to reiterate I don't mind wearing masks inside in certain situations.

 

[Wrckncrw]

You analysis doesn't align with this scientific analysis of existing studies: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118


Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34).

Models suggest that public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high (39). We recommend that mask use requirements are implemented by governments, or, when governments do not, by organizations that provide public-facing services. Such mandates must be accompanied by measures to ensure access to masks, possibly including distribution and rationing mechanisms so that they do not become discriminatory. Given the value of the source control principle, especially for presymptomatic people, it is not sufficient for only employees to wear masks; customers must wear masks as well.

It is also important for health authorities to provide clear guidelines for the production, use, and sanitization or reuse of face masks, and consider their distribution as shortages allow. Clear and implementable guidelines can help increase compliance, and bring communities closer to the goal of reducing and ultimately stopping the spread of COVID-19.

When used in conjunction with widespread testing, contact tracing, quarantining of anyone that may be infected, hand washing, and physical distancing, face masks are a valuable tool to reduce community transmission. All of these measures, through their effect on Re, have the potential to reduce the number of infections. As governments exit lockdowns, keeping transmissions low enough to preserve health care capacity will be critical until a vaccine can be developed.

cmon man no ones reading all that.

 

[TAMU_Fan]

When the whole mask mandate came out, we were compliant and wore masks whenever outside of the house.....however, even though we did everything the gov’t said we needed to do, my wife and I still caught covid....so, I say masks don’t work and I’m okay with not wearing them anymore or ever again....unless required to enter a business or required for work......

 

[figmo1]

cmon man no ones reading all that.

I don’t care if you read it or not. The data backs up that masks are at least somewhat effective. There I summarized the existing data for you. It’s a small burden to wear one. If you don’t want to wear one don’t but don’t try to justify that with incorrect data. That’s all.

 

[kernalsanders]

Here's one it took me 5 secs to look up. I haven't read the whole thing though.

An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19

The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission...

www.pnas.org

You should read the whole thing...here's a summary (most articles on this topic are the same, by the way)- it is an opinion piece based on their opinion of models, not actual data. But it makes sense to them, and their peers agree with them based on other models, not actual data, or really anything but maybes, opinions, and probably's...

 

[tsmith3001]

I don’t really want to launch into a long post, but I worked for a very large company everyone has heard of and sold respiratory equipment for 9 years. We used to joke that anything below an N95 kept out sticks and rocks. That’s it. The N95, N99, P99 etc. refers to the filtration medium. P99 being HEPA, the pink ones. Yes, my Texas mask I bought at Home Depot will keep your large sneeze particulate out of me. But the smaller particles won’t be filtered. Period. And stop wearing a mask with a valve. They filter for you but not for everyone around you.

 

[chuckg_07]

...which proves what point?

He doesn't have one.

One of his points was Trump didn't wear a mask and got covid. Hundreds of thousands of people in the U.S. (and around the world) did everything the CDC told them and still contracted covid too. Hence, he has no point.

Also, Japan is much alike other island nations (i.e., New Zealand) where they've had a harsh shutdown of their borders and also their economy. They experienced a very harsh recession in 2020 and still might be, haven't checked in a while. Also Japan's suicide rate, which has been a major issue for them as they surpassed the U.S last decade at an exponential rate, was actually experiencing a decline until the pandemic. Now their rate is once again drastically increasing.

My point is Japan ain't perfect either. Not one country has been a golden standard.

 

[cdean]

I'm sure I'll get killed for this, but I don't care. The logic behind wearing a surgical mask is a based on initial thoughts that the virus can only be transmitted through airborne droplets and surface contamination. And if true, it would make sense.

But it's now apparent that the virus is transmitted through aerosolized particulates, which basically renders surgical masks ineffective. Look at it this way - the reason Fauci initially said not to purchase N95 masks is because they are not effective unless properly fitted. Physicians actually have to get certified for this.

Now think about the fit of a surgical mask. It's such a bad fit I've got condensation all over my glasses and air running out of all sides. Sure, a surgical mask is going to catch a certain percentage of the virus, so it's really a matter of what viral load is necessary to for transmission. We didn't know the answer last time I checked, but the massive spread suggests it's pretty low.

Finally, what do you think is more likely to get someone sick: the guy across the room or the surgical mask he's kept in his car for a week?

Now I don't believe there's some nefarious conspiracy behind the mask mandates. I think it's more a matter of politicians needing to point to something they've done to combat the spread. As for the rest of us, some people cling to the notion because they're afraid and it makes them feel safe. It makes some feel like they're more compassionate or intelligent. And to be fair, some people are adamantly opposing masks for the same reasons or just to feel like they are fighting against the power.

However, I do not believe that a cloth or surgical mask is really any defense against COVID. If it were, we'd see much different numbers in the US.

I think this is a really good/reasonable and non-inflammatory posts. Kudos.

I have obviously been a big proponent in other threads for masks, but as i stated in my above posts...it has to be a good/well fitting mask to matter.

I believe there are studies and science behind masks working. But the real world is messy with tons more variables than you can control in a lab or study.

I believe the infinite levels of mask quality, fit and understanding of how to use, could lead to completely different results in two different settings or studies.

 

[cdean]

He doesn't have one.

One of his points was Trump didn't wear a mask and got covid. Hundreds of thousands of people in the U.S. (and around the world) did everything the CDC told them and still contracted covid too. Hence, he has no point.

Also, Japan is much alike other island nations (i.e., New Zealand) where they've had a harsh shutdown of their borders and also their economy. They experienced a very harsh recession in 2020 and still might be, haven't checked in a while. Also Japan's suicide rate, which has been a major issue for them as they surpassed the U.S last decade at an exponential rate, was actually experiencing a decline until the pandemic. Now their rate is once again drastically increasing.

My point is Japan ain't perfect either. Not one country has been a golden standard.

Taiwan has been a gold standard. Singapore, very close to them. and its not because they are islands. (i have friends co-workers there, so i hear about the drastic differences in government policies, public participation, and results.)

They have been living close to "normal" in Taiwan for ~9 months. They acted really early, and they did like 80 extra government led actions compared to US.

Other islands (Japan, England) have suffered major outbreaks ongoing. Taiwan has not.

 

[cdean]

Here's some Flu data from Austin area publication...i think this shows two things:
1) Social distancing, quarantining, masking does work on "less contagious" respiratory diseases
2) just how massively more contagious Covid is...

 

[DFNUTT]

Here's some Flu data from Austin area publication...i think this shows two things:
1) Social distancing, quarantining, masking does work on "less contagious" respiratory diseases
2) just how massively more contagious Covid is...

You may want to read this article.

 

[rrdog]

The number of deaths in the US for 2020 must have set a record. Anyone know what the death increase was from previous years?

 

[cdean]

You may want to read this article.

View embedded media

that is interesting, thanks for sharing. But it’s completely theory. With 1 mice experiment.

we probably will get definitive results from this theory some day....probably 3-4 years from now.

I do NOT agree with the assumption that NPI have an equivalent affect on same size particles quoted. They just glossed over that. Ignores how effective particles of one strain vs another might be.

 

[The12thFan]

Social distancing and proper personal hygiene is the best way to slow down the spread. If you can't social distance then a mask should be worn. It is almost impossible to completely stop the spread.

 

[gooch82]

Social distancing proper personal hygiene is the best way to slow down the spread. If you can't social distance then a mask should be worn. It is almost impossible to completely stop the spread.

I have said from the beginning I thought mask were going to give people a false sense of security and feel invincible. So social distancing basically went out the door. Also, regularly handing sanitizing slowed down for sure.

My wife washed her hands religiously and wore a mask and didn’t really travel around much. I wore a mask when out, but didn’t really wash my hands. She got Covid and I didn’t. Go figure.

It is a weird disease and I would put forth the so called experts were making us do things well before they even knew if they worked or not.

 

[schmak01]

?

Positivity Rate:
Cal 2.3%
Texas 13.4%

New Cases Per 100k
Cal 16.8
Texas 26.8

Case Rate Trend:
Cal decreasing
Texas increasing

Um we aren’t increasing cases, should I just have Mark pin this url? I’m getting tired of posting it.

ArcGIS Dashboards

ArcGIS Dashboards

txdshs.maps.arcgis.com

 

[Wrckncrw]

The number of deaths in the US for 2020 must have set a record. Anyone know what the death increase was from previous years?

 

[jr95]

All Koreans and Japanese wear masks. Our per capita deaths in the US is 50 and 40 times the rates of those respective countries. I choose to wear masks unilaterally.

Some of you will say you can eat off of a Japanese sidewalk because they are so clean. They are in better shape. They are culturally cleaner. However every day millions of Japanese rub shoulders in crowded trains but yet our per capita death rate is 40 times Japan's. Trump was a great example of not wearing a mask and look what happened to him. Perhaps Japan has more control over COVID than the US? If COVID was an opposing army Japan faces a much smaller army than us.

Therefore it’s gotta be the mask. Or, stick to your military stories because logic is not your strong suit

Arguing these things based on statistics provided by the CDC or HHS is akin to trying to ascertain who is the most murderous dictator of all time using the number of deaths attributed to the dictator as reported by the dictator

 

[jr95]

What universe are you from? Ca has been locked down. I have family and friends there. They have vaccinated more because the have 10 million more people and in non-rural areas. You would need to look at the population segments, medical availability in rural areas, average age, valley impact. etc to determine deaths per 100k. You get your blinded distorted crap out of here.

He thinks if argues his points with a confidant smugness and then mixes in a few stats he heard on MSNBC earlier in the day people will think he’s smart.

 

[Mac1014]

So, locking down works?

Also, why did you post total numbers? Everyone knows that the per capita numbers are the more appropriate way to present this.

Yes, locking down works.
Until you let everybody out and the virus starts spreading again.

Pretty simple.

 

[ArmyTanker]

Therefore it’s gotta be the mask. Or, stick to your military stories because logic is not your strong suit

Arguing these things based on statistics provided by the CDC or HHS is akin to trying to ascertain who is the most murderous dictator of all time using the number of deaths attributed to the dictator as reported by the dictator

I want to ask you a relevant question. Who died and made you the acerbic and caustic prick? My first mantra is to treat others with dignity and respect, but it appears that you are ignorant of that concept. I have always believed 10% of the population are assholes, and you are in that 10%.

I personally like different opinions because it might broaden my perspective. That was also my approach professionally as I learned better ways to accomplish objectives and gave my subordinate leaders buy in because I often adopted their recommendations. It is obvious that you value your opinion to the point you think you are beyond reproach; and attacking others who have differing opinions justify being an abrasive dick.

You stick by the theory that numbers are wrong, therefore no analysis can be done?

Have an excellent day.

 

[IDRILL4GASOIL]

He thinks if argues his points with a confidant smugness and then mixes in a few stats he heard on MSNBC earlier in the day people will think he’s smart.

Yes, I'm not buying it

 

[CSAg03]

I want to ask you a relevant question. Who died and made you the acerbic and caustic prick? My first mantra is to treat others with dignity and respect, but it appears that you are ignorant of that concept. I have always believed 10% of the population are assholes, and you are in that 10%.

This is what you call treating others with dignity and respect?

 

[ArmyTanker]

This is what you call treating others with dignity and respect?

So you are insinuating I should be nice and cordial to a jerk? You are just brilliant!

 

[CSAg03]

So you are insinuating I should be nice and cordial to a jerk? You are just brilliant!

I was just saying that your "mantra" seems at odds with your actual behavior. Maybe you should stop pretending it's your mantra, or at least stop saying it out loud.