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If these numbers are true, do they change you mind about mask mandates?

Not going to post more medical data for you guys to then repost something from some BS site. I was surprised originally that it came from you. That’s it. Calling this group that comes on here yelling down science bc social media and Newsmax has a chart that says otherwise is not labeling. It simply acknowledging what you guys are
Do you deny the CDC is fudging public statements about this virus? They don’t trust the American people with the unvarnished data, so they create one-size-fits-all recommendations, then badger others or delete commentary that challenges these recommendations.
It’s very similar to the climate change science vs public rhetoric.
 
I don’t think we need mask mandates across the board. Just schools where the kids don’t have a choice and I don’t get to choose who they go to school with. As has been discussed on here at least 10 times, those of us with at risk kids are frustrated by it. Not worried about bars/restaurants etc
So the mask mandate is just needed where the least vulnerable of all people are located? Gotcha. I'm sure you're right, but I'm gonna recheck the science on transmission and illness in school age children. Ok, checked it. Turns out you're dead wrong. This is the one area of this whole mess where all data from everywhere is pretty conclusive. Kids don't get sick and rarely spread the virus.
 
I have an autistic T1D child in public school. I’m not frustrated by kids not wearing masks. Masks pose a far greater threat to his development than COVID.

We did get him vaccinated, but I wouldn’t be worried about his health either way, based on the numbers. Why? Because I don’t think the relative risk to him is significant based on the numbers.
Appreciate the context. If I could get my kids vaccinated, I would feel much less worried.

The mask take doesn’t follow the mask data from Mayo Clinic, CDC, FDA, or 40+ other peer reviewed papers, but you are smart enough to know that. Not going to repost. You guys can Google them. They have been posted on the 79 other mask threads and you guys shout them down.
 
So the mask mandate is just needed where the least vulnerable of all people are located? Gotcha. I'm sure you're right, but I'm gonna recheck the science on transmission and illness in school age children. Ok, checked it. Turns out you're dead wrong. This is the one area of this whole mess where all data from everywhere is pretty conclusive. Kids don't get sick and rarely spread the virus.
Let me guess, you don’t have school age kids you just yell about them?
 
I asked a question, and it short circuited your brain. Would a 1/4000 hospitalization change your mind? It’s a simple question. If you think that chart is inaccurate, please explain.

You sure try to act like you’re one of the smartest people on here, but really you just talk down to people without ever actually adding anything. Instead of actually analyzing anything, you resort to labels and dismiss.

But don’t let me stop you, because it is a fun button to push.
Hey @RageBot watcha doin'?
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When this thing originally hit 18 months ago and it looked like possibly 20% of patients were requiring hospitalization (as seen in south korea and italy) I was pretty concerned and was pretty much behind whatever emergency actions needed to be taken to keep the healthcare system going. It became pretty apparent pretty quickly that that was all bullshit. How some people haven't come around to seeing it with their own eyes 18 months later is what is baffling to me.
I should let you spend a few days with the staff at Baylor St. Luke’s hospital in Houston, or the staff at St. Joseph’s in College Station. I suspect you’d realize this isn’t all bullshit and they’re getting tired of putting their lives on hold and working crazy hours taking care of all the deniers out there. Stop being stupid and selfish and recognize the reality of this. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s not a creation of the news media, it’s a virus that is affecting people. Unvaccinated represent 95% of the cases. The breakthrough rate is ~5%, as predicted. Masks are effective. Just stop with all the misinformation.
 
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I should let you spend a few days with the staff at Baylor St. Luke’s hospital in Houston, or the staff at St. Joseph’s in College Station. I suspect you’d realize this isn’t all bullshit and they’re getting tired of putting their lives on hold and working crazy hours taking care of all the deniers out there. Stop being stupid and selfish and recognize the reality of this. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s not a creation of the news media, it’s a virus that is affecting people. Unvaccinated represent 95% of the cases. The breakthrough rate is ~5%, as predicted. Masks are effective. Just stop with all the misinformation.

Quit firing healthcare workers that won't take the vaccine. No one said it was a conspiracy, but it certainly isn't on the up and up.
 
Appreciate the context. If I could get my kids vaccinated, I would feel much less worried.

The mask take doesn’t follow the mask data from Mayo Clinic, CDC, FDA, or 40+ other peer reviewed papers, but you are smart enough to know that. Not going to repost. You guys can Google them. They have been posted on the 79 other mask threads and you guys shout them down.

At least of a week or so ago there are no peer reviewed papers which support the efficacy of masks. There are observational studies but the real studies show that mask are largely ineffective in the aggregate. This piece gets into the misleading behavior of the CDC on the matter.

https://www.city-journal.org/do-masks-work-a-review-of-the-evidence

"In sum, of the 14 RCTs that have tested the effectiveness of masks in preventing the transmission of respiratory viruses, three suggest, but do not provide any statistically significant evidence in intention-to-treat analysis, that masks might be useful. The other eleven suggest that masks are either useless—whether compared with no masks or because they appear not to add to good hand hygiene alone—or actually counterproductive. Of the three studies that provided statistically significant evidence in intention-to-treat analysis that was not contradicted within the same study, one found that the combination of surgical masks and hand hygiene was less effective than hand hygiene alone, one found that the combination of surgical masks and hand hygiene was less effective than nothing, and one found that cloth masks were less effective than surgical masks."
 
I don’t think we need mask mandates across the board. Just schools where the kids don’t have a choice and I don’t get to choose who they go to school with. As has been discussed on here at least 10 times, those of us with at risk kids are frustrated by it. Not worried about bars/restaurants etc
Send you kid to school with a mask. That is fine by me.
 
I should let you spend a few days with the staff at Baylor St. Luke’s hospital in Houston, or the staff at St. Joseph’s in College Station. I suspect you’d realize this isn’t all bullshit and they’re getting tired of putting their lives on hold and working crazy hours taking care of all the deniers out there. Stop being stupid and selfish and recognize the reality of this. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s not a creation of the news media, it’s a virus that is affecting people. Unvaccinated represent 95% of the cases. The breakthrough rate is ~5%, as predicted. Masks are effective. Just stop with all the misinformation.
We have all been impacted by this and all know of people that have lost their life please don't try to shame us, it is insulting.
 
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At least of a week or so ago there are no peer reviewed papers which support the efficacy of masks. There are observational studies but the real studies show that mask are largely ineffective in the aggregate. This piece gets into the misleading behavior of the CDC on the matter.
This is not accurate at all. Maybe you mean no randomized control studies? Because there are lot of peer reviewed articles published in medical journals. That is not a debatable point.

 
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Thank god we have you, Mike Lindell and other non stupid asses to save us from the mass conspiracy from govt, doctors, hospitals, epidemiologists across the world! You guys are like super heroes.
Pull your head out of the sand and do your own thinking. Nobody here thinks it's a conspiracy, stop putting words in our mouths.
 
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Approximately 1 in 600 American's dying from something doesn't move the needle for you? Not arguing masks or whatever, just seems shocking that this numbers does not seem all that significant to you.

Good point. Yes and no. If we look at how it’s trending than no. Doesn’t mean it’s not awful when it happens to people we know and if broken down by age and relative health than it worries me for some people more than others
 
We have all been impacted by this and all know of people that have lost heir life please don't try to shame us, it is insulting.
I wasn’t trying to shame anyone. I was just responding to the bullshit claim that the hospitalization numbers were overstated and that the 4th surge was all a conspiracy by government and healthcare to affect some sort of power grab. I can’t understand how, as a nation, we have become so divided on an issue that shouldn’t be political. If that gives you a sense of shame, I apologize. That wasn’t what I intended.
 
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I wasn’t trying to shame anyone. I was just responding to the bullshit claim that the hospitalization numbers were overstated and that the 4th surge was all a conspiracy by government and healthcare to affect some sort of power grab. I can’t understand how, as a nation, we have become so divided on an issue that shouldn’t be political. If that gives you a sense of shame, I apologize. That wasn’t what I intended.
First off no one on here has said anything about the government being behind surge. It is about the government reaction/management.
 
I wasn’t trying to shame anyone. I was just responding to the bullshit claim that the hospitalization numbers were overstated and that the 4th surge was all a conspiracy by government and healthcare to affect some sort of power grab. I can’t understand how, as a nation, we have become so divided on an issue that shouldn’t be political. If that gives you a sense of shame, I apologize. That wasn’t what I intended.
Nobody said any of that.
 
I find it interesting that the hospitalization rates and deaths related to common flu and pneumonia have fallen dramatically during the COVID 19 period.
Makes me wonder if those numbers aren’t being counted as Covid-19 sickness numbers.
That is actually a very good question.
 
This is not accurate at all. Maybe you mean no randomized control studies? Because there are lot of peer reviewed articles published in medical journals. That is not a debatable point.


You are correct, my mistake, but that's also a minimal distinction. The City Journal piece goes a long way in debunking the observational study you linked in the JAMA study. In fact, they specifically called that one out and showed how weak it really is.
 
Approximately 1 in 600 American's dying from something doesn't move the needle for you? Not arguing masks or whatever, just seems shocking that this numbers does not seem all that significant to you.
Where are you getting 1 in 600 Americans are dying from COVID? Is that over the lifetime of the pandemic? Because--unless I'm missing something--don't the numbers I referenced suggest that the current overall hospitalization rate is 1 in 4000?
 
Where are you getting 1 in 600 Americans are dying from COVID? Is that over the lifetime of the pandemic? Because--unless I'm missing something--don't the numbers I referenced suggest that the current overall hospitalization rate is 1 in 4000?
It’s a little more than 1 out of 540 Americans since Covid started…. Less than 2 years ago.

And thanks for starting another mind numbing thread.
 
It’s a little more than 1 out of 540 Americans since Covid started…. Less than 2 years ago.

And thanks for starting another mind numbing thread.
That’s what I figured. But that’s not really the relevant number right now, is it? We now have a readily available vaccine as well as a much better understanding on how to treat severe cases. We need to focus on current trends to make the best decisions going forward.

And you’re welcome.
 
I wasn’t trying to shame anyone. I was just responding to the bullshit claim that the hospitalization numbers were overstated and that the 4th surge was all a conspiracy by government and healthcare to affect some sort of power grab. I can’t understand how, as a nation, we have become so divided on an issue that shouldn’t be political. If that gives you a sense of shame, I apologize. That wasn’t what I intended.

Yeah, my post you replied to didn't say any of that. But continue to make back handed apologies.
 
Who cares whether you wear one or not, not my gig. If you are not vaccinated and you end up in the hospital and you become a statistic and need a ventilator and then someone jumps on here and ask for prayers for their loved ones don't ask for a gofundme page or any of that crap. Just my thoughts because right not I have an idiot friend who didn't get vaccinated going through it right now in Corpus. 53 years young. Want to slap the shit out of him.
 
Who cares whether you wear one or not, not my gig. If you are not vaccinated and you end up in the hospital and you become a statistic and need a ventilator and then someone jumps on here and ask for prayers for their loved ones don't ask for a gofundme page or any of that crap. Just my thoughts because right not I have an idiot friend who didn't get vaccinated going through it right now in Corpus. 53 years young. Want to slap the shit out of him.
You seem like a great friend to have.
 
Had a women at just come back from running an errand at Target, as she was walking into the store on the cross-walk she was putting on her mask and truck pulls up to her and the guy yells "Take off your ****ing mask!" She throws her hands up like WTF and the guy lays on his horn and says "I told you to take off the ****ing mask!" A bystander caught video of most of it or I wouldn't have believed it.

What a time to be alive.
 
Where are you getting 1 in 600 Americans are dying from COVID? Is that over the lifetime of the pandemic? Because--unless I'm missing something--don't the numbers I referenced suggest that the current overall hospitalization rate is 1 in 4000?
I used your numbers. You said "182 deaths per 100,000 really moves the needle for you?"

That's about 1 in 550 people.
 

https://today.tamu.edu/2021/08/13/w...ium=today_email&utm_campaign=today_08-18-2021

What The Delta Variant Means For COVID-19​

Experts on vaccines, infectious diseases and global health describe the latest stage of the pandemic.
By Caitlin Clark, Texas A&M University Division of Marketing & Communications AUGUST 13, 2021

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The highly contagious Delta variant has caused a surge in COVID-19 infections and hospitalizations, largely among the unvaccinated. This latest development in the coronavirus pandemic has renewed debates about masking, vaccines and public health protocols as Americans continue to return to offices and schools.
Texas A&M Today spoke about the current state of the pandemic with Dr. Gerald W. Parker, director of the Pandemic & Biosecurity Policy Program within the Bush School of Government and Public Service and associate dean of Global One Health at the College of Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences, and Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children’s Hospital. At Texas A&M University, Hotez was a 2019-2020 faculty fellow with the Hagler Institute for Advanced Study and is a senior fellow emeritus at the Scowcroft Institute of International Affairs at the Bush School.
view through a window into an icu unit in a hospital

Notes written by caregivers are visible on the window of converted negative pressure room for COVID-19 patients in the Intensive Care Unit (ICU) at Lake Charles Memorial Hospital on Aug. 10, 2021 in Lake Charles, La. The floor was a medical ICU but has been converted into an ICU strictly for COVID patients.

Mario Tama/Getty Images

What’s your assessment of where we are at this stage of the pandemic in the United States, given the percentage of the population that is fully vaccinated and the surge in COVID-19 infections?​

Parker: The SARS-CoV-2 virus continues to move through the population worldwide, adapting with new variants to favor its own survival and continued transmission to vulnerable individuals.
The good news: the biomedical research enterprise and vaccine industry were able to accelerate the development of safe and effective COVID vaccines – without cutting quality, safety and efficacy corners – in only 11 months after the first genomic sequence of SARS-CoV-2 was published. That was a remarkable public health achievement that was followed by the largest and most complex mass vaccination campaign in public health history. The vaccination campaign was understandably bumpy at first until vaccine production stabilized, healthcare systems vaccinated front-line health care providers at highest risk of exposure, and state and local authorities geared up mass vaccination sites in urban centers and other means to reach underserved communities and rural areas across Texas and the United States. As vaccine coverage increased from January to May, new daily COVID cases, hospitalizations and deaths dropped precipitously from their January 2021 highs.
As of Aug. 9, there are have been 407,560,705 vaccines delivered and 351,933,175 vaccine doses administered. Fifty percent of the United States population is fully vaccinated with over 80 percent of the most vulnerable, 65 years of age and older, fully vaccinated.
The bad news: vaccination uptake slowed significantly from May through July, 50 percent of the United States population remains unvaccinated, and a new highly contagious SARS-CoV-2 variant, Delta, emerged in India last spring spreading globally. Delta became the predominate strain circulating in the United States and Texas during the summer of 2021.
During July, the incidence of daily new cases and hospitalizations coinciding with Delta’s emergence have increased rapidly. COVID hospitalizations and ICU cases in Texas are surging. As of Aug. 9, we are 66 percent (9,546) of the peak 14,218 hospitalized patients that occurred in January 2021. Across the United States, hospitalizations are 43 percent of the January peak.
Hotez: We’ve underachieved terribly in vaccinating the South, especially among younger people. When you look at the difference (in vaccination rates) in the North and the South, among those over the age of 65, it’s not that much different: it’s maybe 80 percent versus 95-99 percent (in the North). Where the bottom falls out is among young people.
We’re looking at maybe 20 to 25 percent of adolescents in many Southern counties who are vaccinated, compared to over 70 percent in Massachusetts and Vermont, and similar although somewhat higher percentages among young adults. So the big vulnerability in the South right now are all the unvaccinated young people. And that’s what we’re seeing – COVID-19 is just ripping through the Southern states, and we’re seeing lots of young people going into the hospital now.
two signs taped to a store window saying face masks are required

A COVID-19 restriction signs hang outside of a restaurant on March 3 in Austin. Gov. Greg Abbott announced in March that the state would end its mask mandate and allow businesses to reopen at 100 percent capacity.

Montinique Monroe/Getty Images

 
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Not going to post more medical data for you guys to then repost something from some BS site. I was surprised originally that it came from you. That’s it. Calling this group that comes on here yelling down science bc social media and Newsmax has a chart that says otherwise is not labeling. It simply acknowledging what you guys are
So are CNN and MSNBC the true and allowed sources for information? What are the approved sources sir??
 
Continued...

The CDC now advises that people in high-transmission areas wear masks in indoor public spaces, even if they’ve been vaccinated. Why has the Delta variant prompted this change in mask guidance?​

Parker: CDC changed their mask guidance because of the evolving nature of SARS-CoV-2 and the rapid spread of the highly contagious Delta variant. New data show there are increasing breakthrough COVID-19 cases in fully vaccinated individuals. Even though breakthrough cases leading to hospitalization or death are rare, new data also show that fully vaccinated individuals who become infected could be contagious and a source of transmission putting immune compromised and unvaccinated people at risk.
Hotez: It has to do with the fact that the amount of virus in the nasal passages and the mouth appear to be higher from Delta compared to previous lineages, and that even if you’re vaccinated and you have some virus-neutralizing antibodies, you could still be asymptomatically shedding virus. But the truth is there’s some new numbers saying even if that’s true, the amount of time you spread the virus may still be very limited, so that you might be shedding viruses for a shorter period of time. But all of this information is still very preliminary and mostly unpublished.
Ultimately, I still think the vast majority of virus transmission is coming from unvaccinated individuals, and that’s why you’re not seeing a big surge in the North. Essentially most, or in some cases almost all, the adolescents and adults are vaccinated, and this has the collateral benefit, whereas with the low vaccination rates among young people in the South, there’s a lot of virus transmission going on.

Under what circumstances would you advise people to wear a mask?​

Parker: The CDC guidance advises individuals, unvaccinated and vaccinated, to wear a mask while indoors around other people and where there is high community SARS-CoV-2 transmission. Cases and hospitalizations are surging in many Texas communities. If you live in a community with high transmission, particularly with a surge in hospitalization and ICU cases, I recommend you follow CDC guidance. If you are unvaccinated, you should consider getting vaccinated.
Vaccines are readily available and are by far the most effective tool we have in our toolkit to limit community transmission and reduce the risk of severe disease and death.
Hotez: Clearly, if you’re unvaccinated you should be wearing a mask at all times in indoor settings.
And if you’re vaccinated: I’m still avoiding big indoor crowds, and in which case I’m wearing a mask if I have to be indoors. I don’t go to stores a lot. I’m basically going from work to home most of the time. The only difference now is on the weekends we would take our youngest son and his girlfriend out to dinner and I wouldn’t wear a mask inside the restaurant. Now, with this level of virus transmission, I’m thinking twice about that and starting to go back to DoorDash again.

What do breakthrough infections tell us about the effectiveness of the currently available vaccines?​

Parker: To date, the COVID vaccines authorized by the FDA for use in the United States continue to work well, but no vaccine is 100 percent effective. Reports of vaccine breakthrough cases are increasing as new variants emerge and time duration increases from the initial date of completing the vaccination series for many people.
The Phase 3 clinical trial results for Pfizer BioNTech and Moderna vaccines showed 95 percent and 94 percent efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 illness caused by the original SARS-CoV-2 strains in circulation during the fall of 2020 after two shots. Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine showed 66 percent efficacy against moderate COVID-19 illness and 85 percent efficacy against severe illness after one shot.
The clinical trials did not measure protection against asymptomatic infection or potential to transmit SARS-CoV-2 after vaccination. Nonetheless, the Phase 3 clinical trial results were extraordinary, far exceeded the FDA efficacy threshold of 50 percent, and gave hope that vaccines could control the most severe outcomes of the pandemic.
As of Aug. 9, more than 350 million vaccine doses have been administered and 166 million people were fully vaccinated, 50 percent of the United States population. CDC has received reports of 7,525 hospitalizations or deaths in vaccinated people diagnosed with SARS-CoV-2 infection compared to over 35 million confirmed COVID-19 cases. In about 25 percent of the breakthrough cases, patients were asymptomatic, or their diagnosis appeared secondary to primary cause of hospitalization. This indicates what we knew when the vaccination campaign started and what we know now: vaccine breakthrough cases are expected.
SARS-CoV-2 microscopic image

“Vaccines are readily available and are by far the most effective tool we have in our toolkit to limit community transmission and reduce the risk of severe disease and death.”
DR. GERALD PARKER, TEXAS A&M UNIVERSITYCLICK TO TWEET
To date, available data show vaccine breakthrough cases leading to hospitalization or death appear rare and only represent a small percentage of COVID cases. Vaccine breakthroughs are more likely to occur in congregate settings, such as nursing homes, and in populations at risk of vaccine failure (immune compromised, elderly and others).
But CDC’s data has limitations because they are dependent on passive reporting from states on vaccine breakthroughs that led to hospitalization or death and does not include asymptomatic or symptomatic mild to moderate infections.
Population-based studies are needed to gain an understanding of estimated rates of breakthrough cases against mild to moderate infection, vaccine effectiveness against emergency variants, and durability of immunity.
Clinical trials and real-world studies confirm the safety and effectiveness of the Moderna and Pfizer BioNTech COVID vaccines. Through the end of July, the data tells us Pfizer BioNTech and Moderna COVID vaccines remain remarkably effective at reducing risk of hospitalization, severe disease and death for individuals, even for the Delta variant.
Hotez: The vaccines are still really robust. They still give high levels of protection, they’re keeping you out of the hospital and preventing you from symptomatic illness. But there’s increasing information regarding breakthrough cases, and new information in a preprint publication from the Mayo Clinic that protection from non-hospitalized COVID infection may have decreased to the 40-50 percent range for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, with similar data from Israel.
Moreover, when the breakthrough cases happen, they’re associated with higher virus loads. But that’s new information.
We don’t know if this represents true waning immunity versus decreased virus neutralizing antibody against the Delta variant. It’s also important to remember, the way the vaccines were designed was they were tested on their ability to stop symptomatic infection, hospitalization and death, and that mostly still holds. We haven’t lost that, so we should be very mindful that the vaccines still work well.

 
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