For the Ags taking ivermectin as a Covid preventative:
- Thread starter notssor
- Start date
Because I don’t like people disseminating false information. Stuff like saying “150 health care workers won’t take the vax - so see, it must be dangerous.” But when you know that represents a whole .6% of the relevant population makes that statement total BS. For every 150 people there is at least one nut.
We’ve become a country of weird conspiracy theories being acceptable. It’s both tearing the country apart and also making normally sane people make insane decisions. Like harpooning their kids in the chest. This isn’t about the vaccine. And it’s both sides.
I’ve been fighting against conspiracy theories professionally. And if you think I’m an ass by not letting it just slide I won’t apologize.
You’re probably beside yourself with rage over people claiming China flu came from a Wuhan wet market, right?
Saw a presentation from one of our local hospital CEOs today and wanted to share the data. This is for his hospital.
Of current COVID hospital admissions
11% Vaccinated
89% Unvaccinated
ICU
18% Vaccinated
82% Unvaccinated
Ventilated
8% Vaccinated
92% Unvaccinated
There has been 1 death for a vaccinated patient and they were in their 90's with other health issues.
His hospital staff is currently around 50% vaccinated, they are not planning to mandate but would like those numbers to go up, discussing weekly or other frequent testing for unvaccinated to encourage more to get it.
For those interested in antibodies CPL has a free program in conjunction with University of Texas where you can get a sample sent for testing and they will tell you if you have antibodies present.
He discussed the data from the 3 surges in our area, last summer, December/ January and current surge which is still going July/ August.
The current strain is a lot more contagious and they are also seeing a lot more admissions for those in 30's and 40's in the current surge.
I asked about current therapy prior to hospitalization and he mentioned that they are mostly reserving Regeneron for outpatients in an attempt to prevent hospitalizations and he feels it has definitely helped and he also mentioned the COVID cocktail but I wasn't clear if Regeneron was part of it or in addition to it. These are things you want to take early on once you are diagnosed.
I really enjoyed his presentation, he supports people making their own decisions but is doing his best to give them accurate information to make an informed decision.
I think the data is pretty clear that the vaccine greatly reduces risk of serious outcomes so I hope those in high risk categories will get it if able to and they haven't already (of course check with your doctor to make sure it's safe for you). The numbers and risk does also appear to be going up for younger demographics from previous surges, you may not die but being hospitalized sucks.
Hope everybody finds this helpful and just wanted to share our local data from a trusted source.
Of current COVID hospital admissions
11% Vaccinated
89% Unvaccinated
ICU
18% Vaccinated
82% Unvaccinated
Ventilated
8% Vaccinated
92% Unvaccinated
There has been 1 death for a vaccinated patient and they were in their 90's with other health issues.
His hospital staff is currently around 50% vaccinated, they are not planning to mandate but would like those numbers to go up, discussing weekly or other frequent testing for unvaccinated to encourage more to get it.
For those interested in antibodies CPL has a free program in conjunction with University of Texas where you can get a sample sent for testing and they will tell you if you have antibodies present.
He discussed the data from the 3 surges in our area, last summer, December/ January and current surge which is still going July/ August.
The current strain is a lot more contagious and they are also seeing a lot more admissions for those in 30's and 40's in the current surge.
I asked about current therapy prior to hospitalization and he mentioned that they are mostly reserving Regeneron for outpatients in an attempt to prevent hospitalizations and he feels it has definitely helped and he also mentioned the COVID cocktail but I wasn't clear if Regeneron was part of it or in addition to it. These are things you want to take early on once you are diagnosed.
I really enjoyed his presentation, he supports people making their own decisions but is doing his best to give them accurate information to make an informed decision.
I think the data is pretty clear that the vaccine greatly reduces risk of serious outcomes so I hope those in high risk categories will get it if able to and they haven't already (of course check with your doctor to make sure it's safe for you). The numbers and risk does also appear to be going up for younger demographics from previous surges, you may not die but being hospitalized sucks.
Hope everybody finds this helpful and just wanted to share our local data from a trusted source.
Excellent assessment and reflects the reality in our medical community. I like vax choice but I also believe to vax is the better choice unless there are sound medical reasons you are not a candidate.
How beside yourself are you about this?
After reading this thread the only outcome that I can ascertain is that our Republic is split. The tribes are forming and lines are being drawn. Compromise appears to be a term of the past.
Certainly neither “side” gives a shit about the other or cares to understand how or why they believe the way they do. It’s tragic.
I am a bit beside myself that anyone would cite Jeffrey Tucker as an authoritative source on anything at all, or link whatever "institute" he created a couple months back as authoritative. I assume he caught your attention on OAN?
You are proving my point, not the other way around.
lol...my physician sent this to me. Guess you ignore the actual science if it isn't from MSNBC or it's equivalent
I'm not on any side of this issue. You posted an article written by someone with a clear agenda. The article itself is not scholarly, but rather editorial in nature. It does cite a couple of non peer reviewed articles. From this, you asked if I am beside myself because of it. I do not know why I would or would not be. I frankly don't care about the article at all. Does that answer the question you posed to me?
There was really nothing of interest in that article. The whole thing was to fuel the outrage machine.
This time it is the WHO deleting then inserting a phrase on their website.
Exposure to the active virus provides immunity that is equal to or better than vaccination.
Exposure to the active virus without previous vaccination makes you more susceptible to hospitalization, death, and long COVID symptoms.
Best case, get vaccinated then exposed to the active virus in that order.
Have fun being outraged tho.
No outrage. It’s par for the course. Why shouldn’t we ignore everything we know about our immune systems and only trust big pharma to vaccinate us against everything
Seems like you're wrong about this issue and the implications. You were an ass about somebody discussing health care workers not getting vaccinated and looking at my local numbers they were a lot closer to the truth than you were with your mocking attitude. 50% of this particular hospital's staff is not vaccinated, that's not .6%.
It's not proof that the vaccine doesn't work, but it does show that there's a fair amount of people who are hesitant about the vaccine. It's not just crazy conspiracy theorists, there's a lot of people that are hesitant and it's ridiculous that you and others just assume they're crazy.
The data is out there on how the vaccine can help, it's not out there on long term consequences so people are weighing that. It also doesn't help that the messaging and expectations put out have been very misleading. I can't tell you how many people I have heard or read stating that "we would beat COVID if everyone just got vaccinated" that's plain bullshit and the truth is out that it's basically a flu shot. There is significant benefit to it but this idea that it's going to make COVID go away was a lie.
A friend’s dad passed away Monday from COVID, and his mom is in the hospital. Both in their 80’s and had been healthy and were vaccinated. Maybe just too much for their age.
One of my employees in his early 20’s had COVID in March 2020. Ran some fever and had a cough, but made it through pretty well. He decided to get vaccinated several months ago and said he felt a little exhausted for a day after. Then he got the second shot last Friday and it has kicked his ass. High fever, chills, aches, coughing. Missed work this week. Said this was much worse than when he had COVID last year.
One of my employees in his early 20’s had COVID in March 2020. Ran some fever and had a cough, but made it through pretty well. He decided to get vaccinated several months ago and said he felt a little exhausted for a day after. Then he got the second shot last Friday and it has kicked his ass. High fever, chills, aches, coughing. Missed work this week. Said this was much worse than when he had COVID last year.
Respectfully, I was making a point that 150 is misleading when you know the denominator is 25,000. And supporting an argument with knowingly misleading information has become an unfortunate norm in our society lately. I really was not trying to make any further point.
I get what you're saying but I don't think he was trying to mislead and his point was actually a good one. There are a lot of hospital employees not getting vaccinated.
There’s way more misinformation going on about Covid on both sides and it’s really hard getting a handle on things. And it’s flat out impossible to argue with the anti-vax folks, one of whom is my daughter. My other 2 are vaccinated or had Covid and assumes she’s now immune, but both of their husbands are morons who won’t take any vaccines. Normally that wouldn’t bother me but there’s an 11 and a 4 year old involved. “Are you vaccinating them.” I asked. Both said they’re not sure. Simply Amazing.
It’s a crying shame about all the misinformation from both sides going around. And it’s a crying shame politics is involved in this.
How old is your daughter and what kind of health is she in?
If she had covid, especially a mild case, she's almost certainly immune to reinfection of any sort of consequence. The data is showing that natural immunity is every bit as strong as vaccination and actually more effective vs. Delta.
As for their husbands, what about their health or prior covid infections?
The wife and I are a hard no on getting our 11 & 7-year old boys vaccinated. The risk of myocarditis in boys in particular is substantially higher than any risks from covid. We actually need to make appointments to get them tested for antibodies because they've been exposed repeatedly with nary a sniffle.
You don’t know shit.
What your calculations have no way of identifying is how many of the 25,000 were forced to get the vaccine, with their only other option being to get fired and having no way to keep their homes, put food on the table, or providing for their families.
Until you can with certainty cite those figures, your high horse pontificating is just blowing smoke up everyones ass.
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Using the numbers in the post and article is fine.
Making the jump in assumption to imply all the 25,000 were willing participants in the vaccination program without reservations is a misrepresentation of the information.
Good for you. Without having a source to bash do you ignore the body’s natural response to this virus and it’s abilities to make antibodies to fight this novel virus just like every other virus we have fought off as humans since the beginning of time?
It appears many in the scientific community has and their only response to anyone questioning why that is being ignored is to push the vaccine uniformly and call anyone wanting real answers to the questions anti Vaccine. I’m not anti vaccine and never have been but I do think the push for covid zero is a fools errand. Everyone will be exposed to this at some point and getting the vaccine in no way says you will not contract the virus. I have yet to hear of large scale patients getting covid twice which would suggest the body’s response to this thing in healthy young people is superior to that of vaccines alone yet people who say as much are ridiculed as anti whatever. That points to the politics of it all and not the science
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How do vaccinated areas keep having much less cases and death if the vaccine doesn't work? Waco has a shit ton more cases than Denver.
Makes me laugh how often I say I’m not on any side of the issue, post no position on it, and watch fools like you tell me what my position is so you can argue against it.
Tell me how my made up position on leeches is wrong too. Or blue birds pecking you in the ear.
Weirdo.
Answer the question. You seem to think the information in the article is bad due to the source. Most physicians I know feel the same as I. Why can’t you just answer a simple question without calling people fools and making up shit about leeches?
I went fishing with a physician today and he joked about opening a ivermectin clinic because at least he could make money off this mess he is having to deal with.
I did answer it. The article is an opinion piece which is fine, but not authoritative. The few articles it cited are not peer reviewed.
If your doctor relies on non peer reviewed articles to make decisions, you should switch doctors immediately. It’s extremely dangerous. He/she might as well practice medicine via Aggie Yell literature. So basically, I don’t believe you.
This doesn’t necessarily mean I think natural immunity isn’t possibly more effective. Rather, it means the article you posted is utterly worthless as an authoritative source on this issue.
Whatever dude. You are a beating. I asked you to ignore the source and discuss the topic but I guess that is too much for you to do.
Well you actually didn’t ask that. Regardless, that’s like saying “other than the end Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”
From what I’ve seen people with nature immunities plus vaccine are safest. But honestly I haven’t put a ton of time into this issue. No doubt natural immunity is a legit thing and will help us get through this. Doesn’t seem like a substitute to me, but perhaps a compliment to the vaccine.
My post was about false information trying to say 150 health care workers (who could be anywhere from clerical to doctors) didn’t take the vaccine therefore we all should be worried. That was a total BS argument. It was .6% of the relevant population.
I guess you can make my post into something more if you want.
That’s the issue I have at the foundation. Natural immunity seems superior to me and a vaccine that we have no long term studies on is not necessary for people who have had the virus. Many people in the medical community I know feel the same. Therapeutics should be pushed early and aren’t so that’s a problem in my opinion and many others but the political narrative won’t allow an honest discussion. I have yet to see anything scientific stating that the vaccine does anything for people who have had the virus and have the antibodies. Again how many people catch covid twice vaccinated or not? Why aren’t there studies looking at this in the US? We are left to look at data from Israel that only tells us that even in a largely vaccinated population there will be surges of covid. Just like in Oregon but you don’t hear about Oregon. All you hear about is Texas and Florida because their governors have not shut everything down again.
If we as a society want to have an honest and worth wile discussion on how to get past this ignoring natural immunity tells me there are people that don’t want to have an honest discussion on how to best get past this thing. It is being ignored just like you admitted you have. What other virus have we told people with natural immunity through catching the virus to get a vaccine for it? If we have never done that in the past why can’t we discuss it today like adults? Instead we ignore the history of viruses and force healthcare workers to make a decision about their career when we haven’t done that in the past. There is zero evidence that people who have caught covid benefit from the vaccines that I have seen in a true study. There are studies that conclude the natural antibodies stick around much longer than in the patients who have been vaccinated alone which is why Israel is now seeing a major spike. Same with Hawaii, Oregon and Washington St to name a few. These states have high vaccination rates, very little illegal immigration that are infected and have been locked down with masks on more so than many other places. They’re seeing a major spike and with refusing to look at reinfection rates among those that have already had COVID. Most people in healthcare I know are having the discussion. Most people I know who aren’t in healthcare are ignoring it
I was in big pharma for 6 1/2 years and have been in Pedi DME for 12. Have physicians in my family and have made friends with many throughout the years. I’m definitely not a physician but have learned to read studies and like to find data to ask questions for those who are.
I think I’ll leave it that BDB loves a good a good conspiracy because it more interesting.
Why would you vaccinate an 11 or 4 year old? Seems like you’d be doing them a disservice.
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