Afghanistan
- Thread starter BDB99
- Start date
Dude, I don't know, maybe nothing different than what it is now and not . That may have been the only chance, but damn, they've been fighting each other since what, 2000 years before Christ? They're not stopping now, and they're not stopping in the future. That's what thousands of years of religious zealousness looks like.
Stop what? We destroyed Al-Qaeda and their leadership. That was the whole point.
Yes, but you can’t blame us for going in back in 2001. We had to do something to stop the immediate threat. Just should have exited sooner.
Technically, Trump didn’t start any conflicts. First president in 30 years not to.
A trillion dollars. Have to learn that nation building isn’t what our military should be doing.
Technically I didn't say Trump (or Obama or Biden) started this conflict. But he didn't get out either. Didn't leave it any better- he was in office for 4 yrs and could have gotten out sooner. This is not a hall of fame moment for any of the 4 Presidents, none of them figured out a way to actually build a viable Afghan army and leave the country better than we found it. I'll also say I'm not sure that is/was possible to get in, build a country/army and get out- at least the way we in the West want it to look. Not in Afghanistan.
Not saying there is a good answer. I get your point. But how what’s the alternative? Stay forever? It’s been 20 years. At some point the locals have to fight or fold.
We’ve learned that we have to basically occupy a country like this or have a huge presence to greatly limit terrorism. It will go back to being a full time terrorist base again and force us to spend another trillion to fix it down the road.
Buffer state for centuries between numerous world powers
Been in a war like state since the early 1700s
Not sure there is a solution to Afghanistan without a permanent security force
I don’t see the political will to stay in perpetuity
Been in a war like state since the early 1700s
Not sure there is a solution to Afghanistan without a permanent security force
I don’t see the political will to stay in perpetuity
When they take Kabul, give them a couple days to celebrate and bring their dignitaries in, and then bomb the crap out of it from like several hundred miles away.
I had a brief trip to Kabul in 2004. The city was destroyed with all their buildings reduced to rubble. I asked my driver why did we bomb all these buildings? I was shocked when he told me this was the damage from the Russians. They never cleaned up and never rebuilt. That was very eye opening to me.
James Michener's Caravans gives fantastic insight into Afghanistan. It's one of his earlier works, but it's fascinating to read it now and to learn his thoughts on the state of the country in the era after WWII. One of the characters even speculates on the dangers of the crazies from the hills (Taliban) taking over one day, and what that could look like. It's during a chapter in the novel where the main character travels from Kabul to a more rural part of the country, and you learn how difficult it is to bring infrastructure and progress to the country.
Michener wrote it in 1963, so it's one of his earlier works. It's shorter than some of his monster epics, and is definitely worth the read. It's pretty amazing how little the country has changed since then. The country went to hell in a hand basket when Russia invaded, and it's been all downhill since. The cultural peculiarities that he wrote about are things that most Americans first learned after 9/11 when we started hearing stories from American soldiers.
The only possible answer is to turn the country into the next Germany or Japan, but I don't believe there's the will to do it, nor the money and time, and the infrastructure simply isn't there to find an easier way. It's a brutally harsh landscape and a beautiful but sh!tty place to live, and it's kind-hearted population is about to be smothered by extremist religious dogma. Sometimes, the world just sucks, especially for Afghans right now.
Michener wrote it in 1963, so it's one of his earlier works. It's shorter than some of his monster epics, and is definitely worth the read. It's pretty amazing how little the country has changed since then. The country went to hell in a hand basket when Russia invaded, and it's been all downhill since. The cultural peculiarities that he wrote about are things that most Americans first learned after 9/11 when we started hearing stories from American soldiers.
The only possible answer is to turn the country into the next Germany or Japan, but I don't believe there's the will to do it, nor the money and time, and the infrastructure simply isn't there to find an easier way. It's a brutally harsh landscape and a beautiful but sh!tty place to live, and it's kind-hearted population is about to be smothered by extremist religious dogma. Sometimes, the world just sucks, especially for Afghans right now.
A real president would have kept this country with hope.
just idiotic liberal idiots catering to dictatorships. Stupid.
just idiotic liberal idiots catering to dictatorships. Stupid.
2 thoughts...
1, What are the chances the Taliban shoot down a C-5 or C-17 full of evacuees? How would you like to be a pilot of a civilian airliner leased to evacuate people during this shitshow?
2, Does anyone think the guy in charge has enough cognitive ability to even understand what is going on right now?
1, What are the chances the Taliban shoot down a C-5 or C-17 full of evacuees? How would you like to be a pilot of a civilian airliner leased to evacuate people during this shitshow?
2, Does anyone think the guy in charge has enough cognitive ability to even understand what is going on right now?
Sorry to tell you but we are not energy independent any longer. We were under Trump but Jim Crow Joe killed that as soon as he got into office. Stopped drilling, Keystone and other acts has forced us to start importing again. Why do you think Sleazy is begging OPEC to up production.
I don’t think it’s possible to “win” because to pacify that part of the world you would have to literally commit genocide and kill tens of millions if not hundreds of millions. And even then you’d still have hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world who would rise up and a thousand years from now the remaining Muslims in the Middle East would rise up to fight.
I mean, these are a people who are trying to re-fight the bloody Crusades. And the SJW twits here are demanding mascots called Crusaders be renamed because it’s offensive to people for shit that happened 800-1000 years ago.
When the ME fücks with us, I think the objective should be to enter and fûck them up American-style. Show them America Force. Then leave.
Rinse and Repeat.
But I have no military interests where I can make money from war and I’m no political science major.
It’s common nomenclature. Or have you missed the stories and statements from all stripes bemoaning lost lives and treasure in every conflict since Korea?
They had all the time in the world to plan. It was bad enough Trump announced a date but when Biden pushed it back several months it gave them time to not just strategize but bribe officials to make it a cake walk. Most of the time there isn’t even fighting, just photo ops.
I don’t see the political will to keep bases operational at Bagram, Jalalabad, Shindand, Kandahar, Camp Dwyer, and FOB Delaram. I think something along these lines would be necessary, along with 100K combat troops and support personnel, to effectively maintain any semblance of peace.
I’m not upset we are leaving. Some people you just can’t help, and they gravitate to a Totalitarian Govt.
what I am upset about are all our supporters and the innocent people we are throwing to the wolves…who will be tortured and killed…along with $millions of weapons/equipment left behind for Taliban.
THAT is what I’m upset about.
what I am upset about are all our supporters and the innocent people we are throwing to the wolves…who will be tortured and killed…along with $millions of weapons/equipment left behind for Taliban.
THAT is what I’m upset about.
If we had kept it to chasing and killing the terrorists and then a small contingent to monitor and kill any terrorist up ticks we probably would have been ok. And spent a lot less money…..and lives. But we did our usual dumbshit nation building routine. Giving them billions or even trillions of dollars to like us. They don’t give a shit about us.
The bigger the machine the harder it is to stop once it’s going a certain direction.
Maybe at a point but the toothpaste is out of the tube and the terrorists do hate us. There is also apparently a trillion dollars worth of minerals there so maybe someone else will have a crack at getting that.
I’m afraid you may be right. Biden is pleading with them to let everyone out. Trump was working on getting us out of there but his approach was…….we are leaving but if you harm a single american or our friends we will come to your house and extract revenge. One is strength….one is weak.
I don’t think anything could ever make a difference long term. That whole area of the world is not made up of countries….it is made up of tribes. No cohesion.
Yes. We had a mission to end the terrorists. We chased them down and killed them and had their numbers down to about 200 holed up on Pakistan…including bin laden. Then the politicians decided to take over and stopped the mission and turned it into nation building.
You cannot make Afghanistan into any semblance of a modern democracy with a flourishing economy. All they understand is tribal warlords and might makes right. I think most men there see themselves as warriors first then some other occupation. Fighting is was they understand. This country was nothing like Japan, Germany or south Korea where we could rebuild a functioning country. We should have left after killing most of the terrorists and then paid the strongest somewhat rationale warlord to kill any US terrorist enemies that pop up.
Plus we hadn't lost a soldier over ther ein a year and a half off of what Trump did over there so that is a positive.
Played golf with a Vietnamese couple today. He came out of Saigon from the embassy in a helicopter. He said " I have seen this act before". They both started with nothing and become successful in the restaurant business. Amazing what hard work will do for you.
