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So Texas recorded 333 covid deaths today

CamoCroc Ag said:
My problem with conspiracy theories is the require a large number of people to have a secret and keep quiet about it (which I don’t believe is possible with human nature).

Hospital CEOs and CFOs may have an evil desire to line their pockets with COVID money. That’s your premise, right?

But those people don’t code healthcare transactions. For this to be true on any meaningful scale, you would need thousands of physicians to be in on the scheme.

They along, with a tech are generally taking notes on patient care, which is then passed over to a coding specialist (these people make like $40k a year). Hospitals have full teams of coding specialists in charge of coding daily transactions.

So in all honesty, you would need 100s of people (per hospital) in on it to have a meaningful impact if your plan was to miscode.

And that’s honestly best case scenario, because in all honesty the majority of hospitals outsource their RCM process to third parties. Shit, tons of coding is outsourced to India.
Click to expand...

*NOT A DOCTOR QUALIFIER*

i don't believe these hospitals are doing this as some sort of money-making scheme, but i would not doubt that they are doing it to get "more than zero" dollars for treating uninsured patients.

the govt is giving out a metric fvckton of "free money" across all sorts of platforms. at every level, you're going to have people gaming the system. you don't have to look very hard to find people taking advantage of PPP, either, which can also theoretically eventually be audited. the reality is that there is so much money flying around, the govt will never be able to follow up on all cases.

these hospitals are already hurting because elective surgeries were closed down. throw in mass unemployment due to the shut down and the fact that old retired people are hardest hit by CV19 (lack of insurance to cover costs), and its not hard to imagine how these hospitals are going to need additional funds to help keep the doors open.

who is to say (2 years after the fact when the govt has the time and means to finally investigate) that joe sixpack didn't have CV19? the threshold for CV19 diagnosis doesn't appear that stringent:

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/05/07/coding050720

How to code for COVID-19 diagnosis, testing, telehealth
from the AAP Division of Health Care Finance
May 07, 2020
  • Coding Corner

Editor's note:For the latest news on COVID-19, visit https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/01/28/coronavirus.

Coding for encounters related to COVID-19 is changing rapidly. Following is information that will help with coding for diagnosis and testing and getting paid for telehealth services.

Diagnosis codes

Positive COVID

Assign code U07.1, COVID-19, for a confirmed diagnosis of the 2019 novel coronavirus disease (COVID-19) as documented by the provider, a positive COVID-19 test result or a presumptive positive COVID-19 test result. Confirmation does not require documentation of the type of test performed; the provider’s documentation that the individual has COVID-19 is sufficient.
 
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https://www.wpbf.com/article/medica...repancies-in-covid-19-death-tallies/33420066#

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. —

Some Palm Beach County residents making public records requests for the Palm Beach County Medical Examiner's Office's COVID-19 weekly death tallies noticed errors in the reports.

In eight instances of the over 580 deaths listed by mid-July, the cause of death was not COVID-19.

The list included a 60-year-old man who died of a gunshot wound to the head; several people who died of cancer, and one who died from a hip fracture following a fall.

The inclusion of those deaths worried some who said inflating the number of COVID-19 deaths was sending wrong information to the Florida Department of Health and to the County Commission.

But according to the medical examiner's office, the list given out for public records request is not the official tally.

"That list is a quick and dirty excel spreadsheet….that is in no way used for the Department of Health reporting," said operations manager Paul Petrino.

Petrino said everyone on the list did test positive for COVID-19.

He said the app the medical examiners use for COVID-19 cases automatically inputs the virus as a cause of death and they have to physically change that box from yes to no if the person had COVID but actually died of something else -- like a gunshot.
 
If we believe our medical experts and politicians, then everybody will eventually get the virus because there is no vaccine for it. Remember when we were told that we needed to take steps to slow the spread -- "flatten the curve?" The number of cases -- the number under the curve -- does not change. Our actions can only affect the rate that the infection spreads. We are a long way from a cure, so perhaps our actions should be based on how those actions affect our ability to treat patients (e.g., the number of ICU beds available) and not whether or not somebody is going to get sick and die. If going back to school this fall does not overwhelm the medical system, then we should go to back school.
 
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catorano said:
Largely unreported nationally.
Click to expand...
ANY DECREASES in new cases, deaths, etc. will be downplayed nationally because it does NOT fit their agenda of completely destroying the USA as we know it! Surely, no one expects positive news in the future on ANY aspects of the pandemic from cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, washington post, New York Times, etc...
 
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offshore ag said:
*NOT A DOCTOR QUALIFIER*

i don't believe these hospitals are doing this as some sort of money-making scheme, but i would not doubt that they are doing it to get "more than zero" dollars for treating uninsured patients.

the govt is giving out a metric fvckton of "free money" across all sorts of platforms. at every level, you're going to have people gaming the system. you don't have to look very hard to find people taking advantage of PPP, either, which can also theoretically eventually be audited. the reality is that there is so much money flying around, the govt will never be able to follow up on all cases.

these hospitals are already hurting because elective surgeries were closed down. throw in mass unemployment due to the shut down and the fact that old retired people are hardest hit by CV19 (lack of insurance to cover costs), and its not hard to imagine how these hospitals are going to need additional funds to help keep the doors open.

who is to say (2 years after the fact when the govt has the time and means to finally investigate) that joe sixpack didn't have CV19? the threshold for CV19 diagnosis doesn't appear that stringent:

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/05/07/coding050720

How to code for COVID-19 diagnosis, testing, telehealth
from the AAP Division of Health Care Finance
May 07, 2020
  • Coding Corner

Editor's note:For the latest news on COVID-19, visit https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/01/28/coronavirus.

Coding for encounters related to COVID-19 is changing rapidly. Following is information that will help with coding for diagnosis and testing and getting paid for telehealth services.

Diagnosis codes

Positive COVID

Assign code U07.1, COVID-19, for a confirmed diagnosis of the 2019 novel coronavirus disease (COVID-19) as documented by the provider, a positive COVID-19 test result or a presumptive positive COVID-19 test result. Confirmation does not require documentation of the type of test performed; the provider’s documentation that the individual has COVID-19 is sufficient.
Click to expand...

Who is “hospitals”? The admin? Who are extremely far removed from the diagnosis, coding, and billing process, such that they would need wide scale collusion from doctors and various other levels of employees to change those numbers?

The third party RCM providers that typically do the billing and collecting for hospital systems?

Also - “throw in mass unemployment due to the shut down and the fact that old retired people are hardest hit by CV19 (lack of insurance to cover costs), and its not hard to imagine how these hospitals are going to need additional funds to help keep the doors open.”

Old people (over 65) are on Medicare, not uninsured.

Hospitals want things to go back to normal so they can do electives and make money. Over-reporting COVID numbers would seem to do the opposite of opening their doors back up to regular Joe.


FYI - I do healthcare transactions for a living. I’m analyzing patient billing data as we speak, so I’m not just talking out of my ass when it comes to the revenue cycle for healthcare and how reimbursement schedules work.
 
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sigeast02 said:
It’s hard to believe these numbers are continuing to be faked or exaggerated. What gives?
Click to expand...
The only death data you should look at is the Texas Department of Health covid daily deaths listed by date on the graph. The spike in deaths was in mid July and has dropped like a rock since then. There are fewer and fewer deaths each day. The news media use reports that add deaths to each day since March so it does not accurately depict current trends. MSM does this intentionally to provoke fear.
 
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catorano said:
The hospitalizations peaked. Some states/areas log deaths on a day but a lot of the deaths occurred prior to that day. Not sure why.
Click to expand...
Please look at the Texas Department of Health covid deaths per date chart. They have been falling like a rock. We only had around 60 deaths in one day around a week ago and less each day since then.
 
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CamoCroc Ag said:
Who is “hospitals”? The admin? Who are extremely far removed from the diagnosis, coding, and billing process, such that they would need wide scale collusion from doctors and various other levels of employees to change those numbers?

The third party RCM providers that typically do the billing and collecting for hospital systems?

Also - “throw in mass unemployment due to the shut down and the fact that old retired people are hardest hit by CV19 (lack of insurance to cover costs), and its not hard to imagine how these hospitals are going to need additional funds to help keep the doors open.”

Old people (over 65) are on Medicare, not uninsured.

Hospitals want things to go back to normal so they can do electives and make money. Over-reporting COVID numbers would seem to do the opposite of opening their doors back up to regular Joe.


FYI - I do healthcare transactions for a living. I’m analyzing patient billing data as we speak, so I’m not just talking out of my ass when it comes to the revenue cycle for healthcare and how reimbursement schedules work.
Click to expand...

I can’t argue with anything you have here, just like I can’t argue for how prevalent paying players is in college athletics. In each case, my gut feel is the same: there is too much money at stake for it not to happen, at least to some degree.

If uninsured comes in with flu-like symptoms or respiratory problems, which may or may not get handled with common CV treatments, why (outside of moral or gray legal reasons) would you not code CV presumptive and bill the govt versus eating the cost?

For the record, I’m not suggesting that most or even a lot of these cases are coded as CV to game the system...just that I suspect it happens.

Again, I am not a doctor and have no insight into how this all goes down, but I know that a lot of people out there don’t try very hard to turn down “free money”.
 
oldag1980 said:
Sigeast02.......I think we will some growing death numbers from the Valley (So Tx) over the next few weeks. Cheeky educated me on a sudden spike in cases starting about 3 weeks ago. And certainly the socioeconomics of the area will cause additional strain of the systems down there.
Click to expand...
I live in Hidalgo county and the deaths by date have dropped a lot since the spike in mid July.
 
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bbgirlsfan said:
ANY DECREASES in new cases, deaths, etc. will be downplayed nationally because it does NOT fit their agenda of completely destroying the USA as we know it! Surely, no one expects positive news in the future on ANY aspects of the pandemic from cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, washington post, New York Times, etc...
Click to expand...
This is so true.
 
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topher06 said:
Hospitals are incentivized for report all deaths as Covid deaths. It’s sad that people are dying from the disease and hopefully it gets cured soon, but it also isn’t right to destroy the livelihood of everyone to maybe save a few.

big corporations are doing well though cause we trust them to look out for the public good while we shop at their stores.
Click to expand...
Look, the likelihood that any meaningful Numbers of deaths are being misreported as COVID-19 is so small as to be nearly nonexistent.
 
offshore ag said:
I can’t argue with anything you have here, just like I can’t argue for how prevalent paying players is in college athletics. In each case, my gut feel is the same: there is too much money at stake for it not to happen, at least to some degree.

If uninsured comes in with flu-like symptoms or respiratory problems, which may or may not get handled with common CV treatments, why (outside of moral or gray legal reasons) would you not code CV presumptive and bill the govt versus eating the cost?

For the record, I’m not suggesting that most or even a lot of these cases are coded as CV to game the system...just that I suspect it happens.

Again, I am not a doctor and have no insight into how this all goes down, but I know that a lot of people out there don’t try very hard to turn down “free money”.
Click to expand...

Tests are being applied at hospitals to confirm in most cases.

Now the doc-in-the-box clinics we have all over... they may very well be doing what you’ve stated above. And honestly, they may not be upcoding with any malicious intent - facts are that CV is the most prevalent bug right now so, if you’ve got a fever and loss of smell, I could see the assumption being made that it’s CV.
 
cuSPxgq.png
 
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Reports are done at like 1 pm, so deaths after 1 aren’t reported until the next day report..
 
chandler bhang said:
is there any proof of this coding deaths for bigger payouts?

people throw this out there all the time, but i’ve yet to see any data to back it up.

if you have a link, please provide it.
Click to expand...
There are healthcare professionals saying it behind the seen. Nobody is going to be the town crier.......l
 


4 weeks ago:
https://tamu.forums.rivals.com/threads/covid-crap-con.105766/page-2

IN CONCLUSION
Dr. Michael Levitt [Stanford U. professor] and Sweden have been right all along. The only way through COVID-19 is by achieving the modest (10-20%) Herd Immunity Threshold required to have the virus snuff itself out. The sooner politicians—and the press—start talking about HIT and stop talking about new confirmed cases, the better off we will all be. Either way, it’s likely weeks, not months, before the data of new daily deaths will be so low that the press will have to find something new to scare everyone. It’s over.

———————

The death rate is a fact; anything beyond this is an inference.”
William Farr (1807 – 1883)

William Farr, creator of Farr’s law, knew this over 100 years ago. Viruses rise and fall at roughly the same slopes. It’s predictable, and COVID-19 is no different, which is why, after looking at all these death curves, it’s not very hard to declare that the pandemic is over.
 
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catorano said:
Looks great. Thanks for sharing. We are doing an amazing job outside of the states run by democrats.
Click to expand...
...except for Texas, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina, etc., etc., etc.
 
oldag1980 said:
Sigeast02.......I think we will some growing death numbers from the Valley (So Tx) over the next few weeks. Cheeky educated me on a sudden spike in cases starting about 3 weeks ago. And certainly the socioeconomics of the area will cause additional strain of the systems down there.
Click to expand...
Father in law passed away after 28 days in hospital- just sad all around down here
 
To the question if hospitals are lying to get more money, don't know the answer, but they do get paid more from medicare for a covid patient.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ore-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Provision in the relief act
The coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for COVID-19 Medicare patients.

Our ruling: True
We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.
 
chandler bhang said:
is there any proof of this coding deaths for bigger payouts?

people throw this out there all the time, but i’ve yet to see any data to back it up.

if you have a link, please provide it.
Click to expand...

No there is no proof. People use the numbers thrown out about the $18k for COVID patients and $39k for patients on vents. I think I've thoroughly destroyed the idea that hospitals and medical institutions are raking in government money for all of this. Of all of the conspiracy theories out there, this is the easiest one for me to say is so far from the truth. If anything, it's a glimpse of the future of healthcare with socialized medicine.
 
catorano said:
Looks great. Thanks for sharing. We are doing an amazing job outside of the states run by democrats.
Click to expand...
Its really been the opposite since the first surge so wouldn't go boasting that.

Death data lags a bit in two ways: One it takes some counties over a week to report deaths. We always seem to have a Tuesday surge which is I guess when most data gets reported. And, it takes weeks from the time someone is infected until they die.

Best data set is to use a 7 day moving average for deaths rather than picking a day. With that said even if we have an uptick in deaths right now doesn't mean cases aren't going down.
 
Last edited:
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st97 said:
...except for Texas, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina, etc., etc., etc.
Click to expand...

You managed to list one republican run state that is above the national average for deaths per million residents. Is that what Biden meant by picking truth over facts?
 
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CamoCroc Ag said:
Who is “hospitals”? The admin? Who are extremely far removed from the diagnosis, coding, and billing process, such that they would need wide scale collusion from doctors and various other levels of employees to change those numbers?

The third party RCM providers that typically do the billing and collecting for hospital systems?

Also - “throw in mass unemployment due to the shut down and the fact that old retired people are hardest hit by CV19 (lack of insurance to cover costs), and its not hard to imagine how these hospitals are going to need additional funds to help keep the doors open.”

Old people (over 65) are on Medicare, not uninsured.

Hospitals want things to go back to normal so they can do electives and make money. Over-reporting COVID numbers would seem to do the opposite of opening their doors back up to regular Joe.


FYI - I do healthcare transactions for a living. I’m analyzing patient billing data as we speak, so I’m not just talking out of my ass when it comes to the revenue cycle for healthcare and how reimbursement schedules work.
Click to expand...

Is your name Greg Focker?
 
in an effort to push to the 3rd page - real stat of interest is death per case which is all that matters. more worried about sniffles than covid.

deaths reported as opposed to date of death also misnomer.
but glad people still cling to selective statistics
 
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Some of the "reported deaths" occurred days, weeks and months ago, in some cases. At least that's what KBTX said last night. Something about deaths being reclassified as COVID related well after the fact that will change numbers from early on.
 
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