For the Ags taking ivermectin as a Covid preventative:

[Dean Mortimer]

I don’t know that it screams fear. Maybe it screams that some people have a different discernment of the available information.

here’s my story as of this morning. I’ve encouraged high risk family members to get vaxxed and to get boosters ASAP. They have. I have zero concerns for my children with regards to Covid. I have very little concern for me or the wife. I am opposed to taking the vaccine for myself because I’m not old and am in perfect physical health. I have heard enough anecdotal evidence for ivermectin to try it as a prophylactic. Started taking the paste a month ago. I fully assumed that at some point Covid is going to hit my household. This week it has. My wife and oldest tested positive Monday. My youngest tested positive this morning. My wife has been coughing since at least last Saturday and the doctor told her it was just a sinus infection, so we took no precautions (other than the ivermectin I’ve been taking). Wife and I got prescribed ivermectin pills Wednesday evening. I’ve tested negative everyday this week. I’ve had a mild cough, mild back pain, and mild headaches. But just won’t pop positive. I have zero proof but kind of have to assume the ivermectin is keeping my viral load below testable levels. Not sure how else to explain it. I’ve still been sleeping with and kissing my wife. We’ve shared food from the same plate. Either I’m super lucky, naturally resistant, or ivermectin works for some people.

obviously the whole story hasn’t been written yet but those are my current circumstances regarding Covid and ivermectin.

This is where I can't follow the decision making: " I am opposed to taking the vaccine for myself because I’m not old and am in perfect physical health. I have heard enough anecdotal evidence for ivermectin to try it as a prophylactic."

I'm not criticizing your way of looking at it, I just don't follow it.

You are not old, and healthy, and therefore don't feel the vaccine is necessary. However, you are worried about Covid because you've decided to take a non human approved prophylactic for a month now. You are also testing yourself for the virus daily now, which again indicates a high level of worry to me. Are you young and healthy and not worried, or so worried you take prophylactics and daily Covid tests?

I have three kids, two of them vaccinated. My wife and I are vaccinated. My unvaccinated son tested positive for Covid last Tuesday, and none of us have gotten sick. None us took one test, much less daily tests, because we aren't worried. We didn't isolate ourselves from our son and while we didn't want to get sick, we knew that was possible even with vaccination but that it would be 99% chance it would be mild or "normal common cold level". However, we didn't have any symptoms. I wouldn't recommend others don't isolate the ill person in the house, or not test, and certainly understand vaccinated people can get sick - just our approach and results (so far).

I have also heard many stories, from before anyone was trying Ivermectin or vaccines were available, where a household had 2 sick people and 2 people that were never touched. Or husband was sick, wife was not, with no isolation. So I would not assume my vaccination kept me from catching it from my son, or that Ivermectin has helped you - both possible, but can not be factually known.

If worried about Covid I would recommend human tested and proven effective methods, be it healthy weight and outdoor exercise, dietary supplements approved by regulatory agencies, or other prophylactics approved for human use.

If I were to see someone say the vaccine is experimental or that we don't know the long term impacts, but then turn around and use the non-pill form of Ivermectin, I would be really confused.

 

[AggieInDC]

I haven't looked in a while but I remember there was some research suggesting that people who had antibodies from other coronaviruses had some resistance and immunity to COVID.

There have been a number of people who had SARS 17-18 years ago who still exhibit antibodies and immunity to covid.

 

[Majic8Ball]

This is where I can't follow the decision making: " I am opposed to taking the vaccine for myself because I’m not old and am in perfect physical health. I have heard enough anecdotal evidence for ivermectin to try it as a prophylactic."

I'm not criticizing your way of looking at it, I just don't follow it.

You are not old, and healthy, and therefore don't feel the vaccine is necessary. However, you are worried about Covid because you've decided to take a non human approved prophylactic for a month now. You are also testing yourself for the virus daily now, which again indicates a high level of worry to me. Are you young and healthy and not worried, or so worried you take prophylactics and daily Covid tests?

I have three kids, two of them vaccinated. My wife and I are vaccinated. My unvaccinated son tested positive for Covid last Tuesday, and none of us have gotten sick. None us took one test, much less daily tests, because we aren't worried. We didn't isolate ourselves from our son and while we didn't want to get sick, we knew that was possible even with vaccination but that it would be 99% chance it would be mild or "normal common cold level". However, we didn't have any symptoms. I wouldn't recommend others don't isolate the ill person in the house, or not test, and certainly understand vaccinated people can get sick - just our approach and results (so far).

I have also heard many stories, from before anyone was trying Ivermectin or vaccines were available, where a household had 2 sick people and 2 people that were never touched. Or husband was sick, wife was not, with no isolation. So I would not assume my vaccination kept me from catching it from my son, or that Ivermectin has helped you - both possible, but can not be factually known.

If worried about Covid I would recommend human tested and proven effective methods, be it healthy weight and outdoor exercise, dietary supplements approved by regulatory agencies, or other prophylactics approved for human use.

If I were to see someone say the vaccine is experimental or that we don't know the long term impacts, but then turn around and use the non-pill form of Ivermectin, I would be really confused.

Not worried but I certainly want to insure I have a mild case if I get it. I am aware and don’t deny it could possibly kill me or put me in the hospital, which I don’t want. I view a 40 year old drug that I can buy off the shelf as perfectly safe. I did more research than most on this topic and I’ve watched people take it (even excessive amounts) with no negative effects. I’m testing because I really want to pop positive soon because I have a trip to Alaska planned for 2 weeks from yesterday. I need to get it and get it behind me or I’m out a few grand in that trip. Plus I really want to go on that trip. I’m in a timing sensitive situation in that regard.

Edit: I also am testing daily because I’m definitely having symptoms. They are mild but they are definitely the same symptoms as the others in my household.

 

[LufkinAg]

the families of the capital police who were murdered by the rioters you cheered on say hi.

traitor.

Which one was that?

 

[pharm11]

I view a 40 year old drug that I can buy off the shelf as perfectly safe.

this argument has bothered me. Just because a drug has been around a while doesn’t have anything to do with its efficiency or safety. Ibuprofen was approved in 1965 and can destroy your kidneys if taken wrong, Tylenol was approved in 1955 and can cause liver failure.

I agree ivermectin has a mild side effect profile but it isn’t because it has been around for 40 years….

just a weird argument to me

 

[LufkinAg]

I would think there’s less health risk and for sure less maintenance and cost taking the vaccine compared to taking ivermectin.

Absolutely nothing happens when taking the vaccine (almost nothing).

if heart attacks, miscarriages, blood clots, strokes and bad heart rhythms are considered almost nothing you would be correct.

 

[Majic8Ball]

this argument has bothered me. Just because a drug has been around a while doesn’t have anything to do with its efficiency or safety. Ibuprofen was approved in 1965 and can destroy your kidneys if taken wrong, Tylenol was approved in 1955 and can cause liver failure.

I agree ivermectin has a mild side effect profile but it isn’t because it has been around for 40 years….

just a weird argument to me

Do you think it’s weird to be concerned about potential long term effects from experimental mRNA therapies that have only been studied for 18 months? Not flaming, honest question.

 

[AggieInDC]

this argument has bothered me. Just because a drug has been around a while doesn’t have anything to do with its efficiency or safety. Ibuprofen was approved in 1965 and can destroy your kidneys if taken wrong, Tylenol was approved in 1955 and can cause liver failure.

I agree ivermectin has a mild side effect profile but it isn’t because it has been around for 40 years….

just a weird argument to me

I think you're failing to read between the lines what's unstated; and that's that ivermectin has side effects that are well known and extremely mild WITHIN the proper dosing limits.

 

[CheekySchneider]

if heart attacks, miscarriages, blood clots, strokes and bad heart rhythms are considered almost nothing you would be correct.

In the quantity that they occur especially versus Covid death and hospitalization, then, of course, I’m correct.

 

[pharm11]

Do you think it’s weird to be concerned about potential long term effects from experimental mRNA therapies that have only been studied for 18 months? Not flaming, honest question.

It’s not strange to be concerned but reply question…what is the half-life of an mRNA vaccine within the body?

to save us some time…it’s a couple days. So 18 months, in my view, is enough time to see the long term side effects of this medication.
Honest question, what are you looking for/ what is your time frame? 2yrs, 5yrs? Number of doses given?

 

[pharm11]

I think you're failing to read between the lines what's unstated; and that's that ivermectin has side effects that are well known and extremely mild WITHIN the proper dosing limits.

No I understood what he was saying. It just is still a weird argument. For medication you need to discuss efficacy and side effects within a given disease state. So the fact that it has been around for 40 years carry much weight to me

 

[Majic8Ball]

It’s not strange to be concerned but reply question…what is the half-life of an mRNA vaccine within the body?

to save us some time…it’s a couple days. So 18 months, in my view, is enough time to see the long term side effects of this medication.
Honest question, what are you looking for/ what is your time frame? 2yrs, 5yrs? Number of doses given?

Until I feel my risk from Covid exceeds potential long term effects of a vaccine. No real date or data in mind. However, with regards to the mRNA half life, how do we know that’s the half life within all cells in the body? Have they checked all cells in all genotypes of all humans? Maybe overly cautious, but I don’t want to take it. I certainly don’t think my kids need it.

 

[pharm11]

Until I feel my risk from Covid exceeds potential long term effects of a vaccine. No real date or data in mind. However, with regards to the mRNA half life, how do we know that’s the half life within all cells in the body? Have they checked all cells in all genotypes of all humans? Maybe overly cautious, but I don’t want to take it. I certainly don’t think my kids need it.

Decay Rates of Human mRNAs: Correlation With Functional Characteristics and Sequence Attributes

Although mRNA decay rates are a key determinant of the steady-state concentration for any given mRNA species, relatively little is known, on a population level, about what factors influence turnover rates and how these rates are integrated into cellular ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

this paper found half life to be ~10hr (4-5x that to be completely cleared from the body is general rule of thumb).

 

[chandler bhang]

if trump had invented the vaccine in his kitchen, they would have been first in line to take it and would be pumping him for the nobel prize in medicine.

we all know this.

product safety concerns are obviously bullshit in light of their willingness to try damned near anything else based on the flimsiest of evidence.

in the abstract, it’s a fascinating phenomenon to watch unfold.

in practice, though, we’d all be better off if it were confined to a chapter in an abnormal psychology textbook.

 

[darterbury]

Time tested

if trump had invented the vaccine in his kitchen, they would have been first in line to take it and would be pumping him for the nobel prize in medicine.

we all know this.

product safety concerns are obviously bullshit in light of their willingness to try damned near anything else based on the flimsiest of evidence.

in the abstract, it’s a fascinating phenomenon to watch unfold.

in practice, though, we’d all be better off if it were confined to a chapter in an abnormal psychology textbook.

You're stupid with hatred. Trump has whooped your ass mentally.

I guess Middle East peace and a Super economy isn't your thing.

 

[chandler bhang]

nor santa claus and cold fusion.

 

[BDB99]

if trump had invented the vaccine in his kitchen, they would have been first in line to take it and would be pumping him for the nobel prize in medicine.

we all know this.

product safety concerns are obviously bullshit in light of their willingness to try damned near anything else based on the flimsiest of evidence.

in the abstract, it’s a fascinating phenomenon to watch unfold.

in practice, though, we’d all be better off if it were confined to a chapter in an abnormal psychology textbook.

Lol. And if Trump was still president democrats on mass wouldn’t have taken it.

 

[AggieInDC]

if trump had invented the vaccine in his kitchen, they would have been first in line to take it and would be pumping him for the nobel prize in medicine.

we all know this.

product safety concerns are obviously bullshit in light of their willingness to try damned near anything else based on the flimsiest of evidence.

in the abstract, it’s a fascinating phenomenon to watch unfold.

in practice, though, we’d all be better off if it were confined to a chapter in an abnormal psychology textbook.

Completely asinine statement. Especially considering the vaccines were developed under a program implemented by Trump, Trump has gotten vaccinated, and he has encouraged people to get vaccinated. Or did you miss him actually getting booed recently when he urged people at a speech of some kind to get vaccinated?

 

[Majic8Ball]

if trump had invented the vaccine in his kitchen, they would have been first in line to take it and would be pumping him for the nobel prize in medicine.

we all know this.

product safety concerns are obviously bullshit in light of their willingness to try damned near anything else based on the flimsiest of evidence.

in the abstract, it’s a fascinating phenomenon to watch unfold.

in practice, though, we’d all be better off if it were confined to a chapter in an abnormal psychology textbook.

You know, you really ought to go **** yourself you ignorant piece of shit. Youre more concerned with Trump than anyone on this board and it’s tiresome.
However, your descent from clever, funny poster into insane, bitter asshole had been a spectacle to behold. It’s been like watching a raisin shrivel in the sun.

 

[chandler bhang]

oh, i saw it, and it wasn’t surprising.

angry mobs always get away from the demagogues who incite them.

i’ve never feared trump.

it’s the great unwashed throng who follow him that is truly frightening.

but they would have thrown in with someone equally repugnant if trump hadn’t stepped up.

 

[CSAg03]

Decay Rates of Human mRNAs: Correlation With Functional Characteristics and Sequence Attributes

Although mRNA decay rates are a key determinant of the steady-state concentration for any given mRNA species, relatively little is known, on a population level, about what factors influence turnover rates and how these rates are integrated into cellular ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

this paper found half life to be ~10hr (4-5x that to be completely cleared from the body is general rule of thumb).

All the toxicity they have experienced in previous trials was related to the lipid nanoparticles used to deliver the mrna, not the mrna itself. They are supposed to stay at the injection site, but a number of doctors/studies have found them in high concentrations in ovaries, bone marrow, and lymph nodes. That's not to say it's something that can cause a long term problem, but it is something that's unknown.

 

[AggieInDC]

oh, i saw it, and it wasn’t surprising.

angry mobs always get away from the demagogues who incite them.

i’ve never feared trump.

it’s the great unwashed throng who follow him that is truly frightening.

but they would have thrown in with someone equally repugnant if trump hadn’t stepped up.

Well when Dems and the media try to claim somebody as milquetoast as Mitt Romney is completely evil and literally killing people don’t be surprised when a real bad guy shows up.

 

[chandler bhang]

i have no idea what you’re talking about.

was he swift boated?

 

[pharm11]

All the toxicity they have experienced in previous trials was related to the lipid nanoparticles used to deliver the mrna, not the mrna itself. They are supposed to stay at the injection site, but a number of doctors/studies have found them in high concentrations in ovaries, bone marrow, and lymph nodes. That's not to say it's something that can cause a long term problem, but it is something that's unknown.

Can you supply those studies would love to read them and get back with you

 

[AggieInDC]

i have no idea what you’re talking about.

was he swift boated?

Not swift boated but Romney is as squeaky-clean and scandal-free as you can possibly imagine and about as “bad” of a guy as Mr. Rogers but was portrayed as the worst, most sexist candidate ever. In other words, not a bad guy but he was supposed to be the worst ever.

So when even the nicest guy is portrayed as being a bad guy, don’t be shocked when an actual bad guy steps up. It’s like pro wrasslin’ where somebody embraces being the heel.

 

[Reez05]

Decay Rates of Human mRNAs: Correlation With Functional Characteristics and Sequence Attributes

Although mRNA decay rates are a key determinant of the steady-state concentration for any given mRNA species, relatively little is known, on a population level, about what factors influence turnover rates and how these rates are integrated into cellular ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

this paper found half life to be ~10hr (4-5x that to be completely cleared from the body is general rule of thumb).

I don't think the risk is the mRNA, it's the delivery method and whether that all breaks down or has potential to accumulate.

 

[CSAg03]

Can you supply those studies would love to read them and get back with you

It was actually from Pfizer's data supplied to the Japanese government for approval. I'm linking a translated version. They found the highest concentrations at the injection site, followed by the liver, and then smaller amounts distributed in various organs/systems.

https://www.naturalnews.com/files/P...nfidential-document-translated-to-english.pdf

Here's a pretty good article on the subject.

 

[Reez05]

if trump had invented the vaccine in his kitchen, they would have been first in line to take it and would be pumping him for the nobel prize in medicine.

we all know this.

product safety concerns are obviously bullshit in light of their willingness to try damned near anything else based on the flimsiest of evidence.

in the abstract, it’s a fascinating phenomenon to watch unfold.

in practice, though, we’d all be better off if it were confined to a chapter in an abnormal psychology textbook.

They really ****ed with your head man.

I don't know if it's the board or the news but you need to take a break from something.

Maybe you're just too far gone and will never be the same.

You seem to be constantly triggered and try to tie everything to Trump, it's fascinating and disturbing.

BTW since you brought up the "Trump vaccine" - I have really enjoyed it on Twitter where they are posting tweets from last year of idiots saying they would never take a vaccine rushed through by Trump and then put that tweet next to current posts where these same individuals are now saying that the vaccine should be mandated. A lot of democratic officials and journalists in that population.

 

[superag1000]

I was only talking about school board meetings. Yea, it's the illegals spreading all the Covid over all 50 states. Lighten up and quit shoving ivermectin up your ass. I can't get any for my GD cows. They prefer the apple flavored too!

Really....I live in the Rio Grande valley and thousands of illegal aliens are pouring through each day. Some of the local governments have been testing illegal aliens for covid and finding a significant portion have it. The local mostly Democratic politicians are pissed at the Feds lack of control at the border. It's very ignorant to not think this influx does not contribute to more covid spread in the US. But I guess it's easier to pretend it's not real.

 

[pharm11]

It was actually from Pfizer's data supplied to the Japanese government for approval. I'm linking a translated version. They found the highest concentrations at the injection site, followed by the liver, and then smaller amounts distributed in various organs/systems.

https://www.naturalnews.com/files/P...nfidential-document-translated-to-english.pdf

Here's a pretty article on the subject.

View embedded media

Thanks for the link, I think the translation made it hard a bit hard to read and unfortunately all the tables were wonky.
From my reading it does distribute mostly to the liver and much less to the spleen and ovaries. However they showed that the levels decreased and were gone by day 9.

 

[sigeast02]

They really ****ed with your head man.

I don't know if it's the board or the news but you need to take a break from something.

Maybe you're just too far gone and will never be the same.

You seem to be constantly triggered and try to tie everything to Trump, it's fascinating and disturbing.

BTW since you brought up the "Trump vaccine" - I have really enjoyed it on Twitter where they are posting tweets from last year of idiots saying they would never take a vaccine rushed through by Trump and then put that tweet next to current posts where these same individuals are now saying that the vaccine should be mandated. A lot of democratic officials and journalists in that population.

Unfortunately something similar has happened to LSA. I used to really enjoy his posts - he was thoughtful and fair while still passionate. I can appreciate that. It seems, however, that his posts have devolved to be incredibly cynical if not flat out hateful. I get the Trump disdain, I can’t stand the guy, but it’s not as if he was wrong about everything. We’re all in this together, rightly or wrongly, so we owe it to each other and to ourselves to at least TRY and understand why we all believe the way we do and what has influenced that thinking. It’s not possible for there to be 150MM crazy people in this country (depending on what side of the political aisle you sit).

 

[cooter#]

if trump had invented the vaccine in his kitchen, they would have been first in line to take it and would be pumping him for the nobel prize in medicine.

we all know this.

product safety concerns are obviously bullshit in light of their willingness to try damned near anything else based on the flimsiest of evidence.

in the abstract, it’s a fascinating phenomenon to watch unfold.

in practice, though, we’d all be better off if it were confined to a chapter in an abnormal psychology textbook.

If I remember correctly Trump pushed to get the vaccine approved. And wasn’t it approved before Slow Biden took office?

 

[pharm11]

Reckless at one point in this thread asked why I wanted him vaccinated…this is a real example of why we need to try to keep hospital beds open

Veteran dies of treatable illness as COVID fills hospital beds, leaving doctors "playing musical chairs" https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/

 

[clayber]

Reckless at one point in this thread asked why I wanted him vaccinated…this is a real example of why we need to try to keep hospital beds open

Veteran dies of treatable illness as COVID fills hospital beds, leaving doctors "playing musical chairs" https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/

Covid patients pay more. Do we know if covid patients were vaccinated?

 

[pharm11]

Covid patients pay more. Do we know if covid patients were vaccinated?

Unclear what you are asking (no flame honest). Most data I have seen from hospitals around the country have a split of 85% unvaccinated to 15% vaccinated in their admitted patients

 

[pharm11]

Covid patients pay more. Do we know if covid patients were vaccinated?

If you are implying that hospitals want more covid patients because insurance charges more, then I think your financial analysis is misguided.

many hospitals on the adult side will have multiple patients per room but have had to cut down on that because of covid (therefore lost revenue) and more importantly (financially) have started to cancel elective procedure which DEALLY cuts into their budget.

even more-so because of nursing shortages/ burnout hospitals have had to give very lucrative incentives to encourage work or higher very expensive traveling nurses.

All in all hospitals want covid to be over with

 

[offshore ag]

We’re all in this together, rightly or wrongly, so we owe it to each other and to ourselves to at least TRY and understand why we all believe the way we do and what has influenced that thinking. It’s not possible for there to be 150MM crazy people in this country (depending on what side of the political aisle you sit).

in a practical sense, this is a great stance to have. Unfortunately, this line of thinking ends with the country being railroaded by the radical left.

a group trying to remain neutral being while pulled in a single direction (even if by the fringe elements) by the government, education system, media, Hollywood, military, sports, and corporate world will fall in the direction being pulled.

We will never again see middle ground common sense prevail in our lifetimes.

 

[CSAg03]

If you are implying that hospitals want more covid patients because insurance charges more, then I think your financial analysis is misguided.

many hospitals on the adult side will have multiple patients per room but have had to cut down on that because of covid (therefore lost revenue) and more importantly (financially) have started to cancel elective procedure which DEALLY cuts into their budget.

even more-so because of nursing shortages/ burnout hospitals have had to give very lucrative incentives to encourage work or higher very expensive traveling nurses.

All in all hospitals want covid to be over with

Do you feel like staffing shortages are in part due to hospitals mandating the vaccines?

 

[cmergele]

We will never again see middle ground common sense prevail in our lifetimes.

I wish I thought you were wrong, but I’m with you. I don’t think I’ve seen a more polarizing time in my life. People are entitled to their opinions and choices whatever they may be. If you don’t agree with my choice, I respect that, but respect my choice as well.

 

[pharm11]

Do you feel like staffing shortages are in part due to hospitals mandating the vaccines?

Not for our hospital in OR. Can’t speak for Texas hospitals though. Ours is more from burnout and nurses leaving.

you have to realize that they have been working their normal 40-60hrs plus covid clinics since January until this last July.

a lot of nurses are just tired I think