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Haiti

st97

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Dec 11, 2002
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I make it a point to follow world politics, and I think something bigger is happening in Haiti than we realize. Haiti is incredibly poor and unstable, and it has vast untapped natural resources. That makes it a potential target of bad actors (and I'm talking Russia and China here, and WTF knows who else). Their president was assassinated a few months ago, and we still don't know who was ultimately behind it. Some rich Florida businessman was labeled as the culprit, but nobody has any real idea of whether or not that was actually the whole case. A bunch of highly-trained Columbian mercenaries were lured into taking some job that was sold to them as a "good guys vs. bad guys" liberation movement, but they didn't actually kill the president. They are now in Haitian prison, and were used as scapegoats by someone who financed the Florida businessman and orchestrated the assassination from behind the scenes (my opinion).

The resources of Haiti is what had me interested in this in the first place, and it was only exacerbated when 10-15,000 Haitians basically stormed the border this week. They were apparently victims of a social media disinformation campaign, because no policy shift and no offering occurred that would make them think it was the right time to all come together and seek refuge. If anything, they would have done it a few years ago when Trump was threatening to change our policy. Why they would all randomly come together and do it now, almost a year into Biden, doesn't make any sense. It's too easy. My best guess is that Russia or China has a long-term plan to exploit the resources of the country, and to plant a government there that will be a thorn in our side (much like Cuba), but it's still too early to tell. I firmly believe, though, that, unfortunately, some real s*** is going to go down in Haiti over the next several years, and that it could lead to a worldwide conflict.

This social media disinformation gem that Russia has unearthed is going to turn out to be a real fvcker. I mean, look at how well-educated the USA is in general, and look at how it messed with us. Now drop that kind of online campaign into third world countries without the education that is often required to see through such BS, and you have a game changer.

Hell, if you can type out a bunch of BS online and get 10,000+ people to flee to our southern border, imagine what you could do internally in Haiti. It may have been just a test.
 
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Why are you thinking it's Russia or China when we have extended our sphere of influence there for years. The Clintons stole millions from the country and we continuously involve ourselves in their politics. Their President wasn't playing ball with our new admin and the CIA, which he was very vocal about before he was offed.

I'm in the pocket that we did it to install a puppet. As for the immigrants, that could be Russia or China, but I doubt it. The folks just saw the writing on the wall and wanted to GTFO before it gets much worse.
 
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Why are you thinking it's Russia or China when we have extended our sphere of influence there for years. The Clintons stole millions from the country and we continuously involve ourselves in their politics. Their President wasn't playing ball with our new admin and the CIA, which he was very vocal about before he was offed.

I'm in the pocket that we did it to install a puppet. As for the immigrants, that could be Russia or China, but I doubt it. The folks just saw the writing on the wall and wanted to GTFO before it gets much worse.
Yeah, and they all came together at the exact same time and descended on our border 15K strong. Come on, dude. Biden was president when their president was assassinated, so why would he then get thousands of them to storm the border, which makes him look bad?
 
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I've been wondering who is behind this, I have no clue. But 15k people don't flee a freaking island and end up on our southern border without a lot of help.
See, that's the thing. The Haitians who stormed our border didn't come from Haiti, for the most part. They were expats living in Central and South America and they traveled by land. It was an internet spur.
 
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They came from Chile and Colombia. By law you can’t claim asylum if you e settled in another country already. But who cares about laws around here
That's a distraction technique. If you want to start a new thread about our immigration policy, fine, but I'm more interested in having a bit of discourse on why it's happening.
 
With all due respect, both of you need to study history and realize how incredibly short-sighted you're being.
I think you are reading too much into 15,000 people from a population of 11.23 million coming to the border over a period of a couple of weeks to the same place.

Occam's Razor applies.

Could be a normal number, but a coyote found this way is easier than Florida or somewhere else on the gulf coast. Hence the increase in one place. We don't know.

Could simply be some folks freaking out after their president was assassinated and throwing the government into chaos.

Without evidence of your suggestions, and I'm not saying they aren't correct, the simplest explanation is typically the right one.

A massive disinformation campaign that only caught .13% of the population in its net isn't a very good net. Plus it's not like our President told everyone they can come on over, oh yeah, he did. I'm sure that had something to do with it.
 
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They came from Chile and Colombia. By law you can’t claim asylum if you e settled in another country already. But who cares about laws around here
I was wondering how all of them could have crossed the Caribbean Sea to get to Mexico
 
I think you are reading too much into 15,000 people from a population of 11.23 million coming to the border over a period of a couple of weeks to the same place.

Occam's Razor applies.

Could be a normal number, but a coyote found this way is easier than Florida or somewhere else on the gulf coast. Hence the increase in one place. We don't know.

Could simply be some folks freaking out after their president was assassinated and throwing the government into chaos.

Without evidence of your suggestions, and I'm not saying they aren't correct, the simplest explanation is typically the right one.

A massive disinformation campaign that only caught .13% of the population in its net isn't a very good net. Plus it's not like our President told everyone they can come on over, oh yeah, he did. I'm sure that had something to do with it.
No, and I've read enough of your posts to respect you and challenge you to think harder on this. I'm really not being dickish. Think about it. Some folks freaking about about the assassination of their president, but collectively, and a few months after the assassination? No, dude. There's more going on here. That is exactly the reaction that whomever is orchestrating this wants you to think.

And when you say .13% of the population, keep in mind that they are not actually the population. They are the Haitians that have adapted to Spanish language Russian disinformation, which is a real thing, because they are the Haitians who have relocated to Spanish-speaking countries. Yeah, they're Haitian, and they're probably hacking away on their keyboards in Haitian Creole, but they speak Spanish. The Russians may not yet be proficient in Haitian Creole, but you can damn sure bet that they soon will be.
 
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Biden campaigned on a completely open border and said he hoped our southern border would be stormed by immigrants from all over and we are seeing it. It’s that simple. A few weeks ago he came out and said he would not return Haitian immigrants and you are now seeing it. The cartels are trafficking humans at a larger clip than ever due to Biden’s policies. That’s why they are all showing up in one place. Del Rio is the chosen place for the cartels. It’s really pretty simple and predictable and will only get worse as our government has declined our sovereignty with no borders. Get ready as it’s only gonna get worse. It’s what people voted for. Enjoy
 
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Yeah, and they all came together at the exact same time and descended on our border 15K strong. Come on, dude. Biden was president when their president was assassinated, so why would he then get thousands of them to storm the border, which makes him look bad?
More uneducated morons equals more liberal Democrat votes? Just a stab in the dark.
 
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Biden campaigned on a completely open border and said he hoped our southern border would be stormed by immigrants from all over and we are seeing it. It’s that simple. A few weeks ago he came out and said he would not return Haitian immigrants and you are now seeing it. The cartels are trafficking humans at a larger clip than ever due to Biden’s policies. That’s why they are all showing up in one place. Del Rio is the chosen place for the cartels. It’s really pretty simple and predictable and will only get worse as our government has declined our sovereignty with no borders. Get ready as it’s only gonna get worse. It’s what people voted for. Enjoy
This isn't necessarily political. It was meant to be more thoughtful.

You could also argue that on his first day in the Oval Office, Biden tried a sweeping overhaul of our backlogged immigration processing system, which would have allowed us to much more quickly process migrants who came here illegally, and send them back home, and focus on the legal refugee seekers, and the legislation was blocked by Republicans because it wouldn't help them get their voters angry enough.

That's true, and it happened. The fault is on both sides, over decades, and I was hoping to have at least a semi-intellectual discussion into the current situation in Haiti, which fascinates me. Please don't relegate this to the political page.
 
And I’m quite sure Russia, China and anyone else who is a true enemy of this nation is taking full advantage. Why wouldn’t they when you have the opportunity to screw is over. It’s really pretty simple and all could have been avoided pretty easily but it’s going to happen for at least the next couple years at an unfettered rate. Enjoy the humanitarian crisis that was completely created
 
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The current administration’s handling of the border crisis has been very poor. A friendly domestic media combined with plenty of other news has kept it from being a lead story in the US, but it certainly isn’t a secret. If you were planning on making your way into the US illegally, now is an opportune time.
 
This isn't necessarily political. It was meant to be more thoughtful.

You could also argue that on his first day in the Oval Office, Biden tried a sweeping overhaul of our backlogged immigration processing system, which would have allowed us to much more quickly process migrants who came here illegally, and send them back home, and focus on the legal refugee seekers, and the legislation was blocked by Republicans because it wouldn't help them get their voters angry enough.

That's true, and it happened. The fault is on both sides, over decades, and I was hoping to have at least a semi-intellectual discussion into the current situation in Haiti, which fascinates me. Please don't relegate this to the political page.
He campaigned in this. It’s completely what he wanted to happen. It might be of a scale he didn’t predict so he may have a little buyers remorse but this is exactly what everyone knew would happen when he told the world we have an open border. You can try to figure out something different but it’s all completely right infront of everyone in black an white. Whatever. Talk in circles if you want but it’s all pretty simple and Haiti isn’t going to be the only country with mass illegal aliens walking across our border and that’s all perfectly fine with our current government
 
Good lord, almighty, this is the problem I'm talking about in the original post. The point is to look to the crux of the problem. Why is there a border crisis? Why was Trump able to politicize it to his benefit? Why is it being used against Biden disingenuously, politically (and I'm not saying Biden has been good with the border, because he's pretty much sucked a fat d!ck as president, and this is coming from a Democrat).

I was just hoping to hear from some people who might have some deep thoughts on Haiti, and I don't want it to be political.
 
You could put Biden on a plane and fly around for 10 hours then land in Haiti and tell him he is in Afghanistan and he would get out and begin his speech by saying "All you people in Portugal need to get vaccinated." Saying Biden has plan to grab Haiti is to acknowledge his brain is functioning.
 
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I am surprised those Haitian refugees living under a bridge have social media accounts and access. You'd think they'd have more pressing matters to attend to.
 
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Anyway, I see where this is going, but I'm going to read every reply, because I'm genuinely interested in how the situation in Haiti plays, out, and I'm fascinated to watch what's going on in the world around me, so if anyone would like to respond with some fodder, let's go.
 
I am surprised those Haitian refugees living under a bridge have social media accounts and access. You'd think they'd have more pressing matters to attend to.
Go fvck yourself, and you know you're being completely full of sh!t and disingenuous right now. Yeah, ok, Haitians living in Brazil aren't on their phones like 14 hours per day. Please...
 
Anyway, I see where this is going, but I'm going to read ever reply, because I'm genuinely interested in how the situation in Haiti plays, out, and I'm fascinated to watch what's going on in the world around me, so if anyone would like to respond with some fodder, let's go.
Your first replies to the first people to engage with you killed all desire to interact.
 
One thought is the Biden Administration is making some rich coyotes in this time frame. And I’m sure the Russians and China are taking whatever advantage of us they can during this.
 
I don't respond to social media attempts to influence my actions, get your Russian tactics out of here.
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Your first replies to the first people to engage with you killed all desire to interact.
I just went back and looked at all of my initial replies, which were pretty respectful, and I think you're just saying that even though it's complete BS. Maybe consider than I'm actually curious to hear what other people think about the situation in Haiti. The only person I was extremely disrespectful to was you, and I then told you that I think you're entire post was disingenuous, which is fvcking boring. Come on, dude, you're better than that.
 
Good lord, almighty, this is the problem I'm talking about in the original post. The point is to look to the crux of the problem. Why is there a border crisis? Why was Trump able to politicize it to his benefit? Why is it being used against Biden disingenuously, politically (and I'm not saying Biden has been good with the border, because he's pretty much sucked a fat d!ck as president, and this is coming from a Democrat).

I was just hoping to hear from some people who might have some deep thoughts on Haiti, and I don't want it to be political.
I don’t know if I follow your series of questions.

“Why is there a border crisis?”
Generally, there is always a border control issue because people want to immigrate to the United States without going through the proper channels. Currently, that problem is a crisis due to a ballooning welfare state and a record labor shortage. This has created massive economic incentives for immigrants to get here, whether they want to work or not.

“Why was Trump able to politicize it to his benefit?”
I’m not sure what you are asking. If you are asking why Trump was able to have strong border control enforcement be a political talking point, it is because most Americans believe that we should have a strong border.

“Why is it being used against Biden?”
Again, I am not sure what you are asking. Biden’s border policy has been at best confusing. He railed against Trump for his treatment of illegal immigrant detainees, but conditions at detention facilities has gotten worse under his watch. The border patrol is overwhelmed, yet his administration is more concerned with how it looks when an agent on horseback chases an illegal entrant than getting the agency the resources it needs to deal with the recent surge.
 
Also, you just got a darterbury "like", which should tell you everything you need to know.
 
I don’t know if I follow your series of questions.

“Why is there a border crisis?”
Generally, there is always a border control issue because people want to immigrate to the United States without going through the proper channels. Currently, that problem is a crisis due to a ballooning welfare state and a record labor shortage. This has created massive economic incentives for immigrants to get here, whether they want to work or not.
When I asked why there was a border crisis, I was talking about the influx of Haitian refugees. I'm still trying to figure that one out.
“Why was Trump able to politicize it to his benefit?”
I’m not sure what you are asking. If you are asking why Trump was able to have strong border control enforcement be a political talking point, it is because most Americans believe that we should have a strong border.
When I asked why Trump was able to politicize it to his benefit, I suppose I underestimated the racism and lack of empathy in this country.
“Why is it being used against Biden?”
Again, I am not sure what you are asking. Biden’s border policy has been at best confusing. He railed against Trump for his treatment of illegal immigrant detainees, but conditions at detention facilities has gotten worse under his watch. The border patrol is overwhelmed, yet his administration is more concerned with how it looks when an agent on horseback chases an illegal entrant than getting the agency the resources it needs to deal with the recent surge.
When I asked why it was being used against Biden, well, I already knew the answer, and it's not going to change. it is what it is, but I was honestly just hoping for some more insight into Haiti from this thread.
 
Cartels are recruiting all over south and Central America. They’re lying to people, basically saying Joe Biden is welcoming everyone with open arms. It’s one of their major revenue streams now.

Now as far as why they’re fleeing Haiti in the first place, I don’t know if simply terrible conditions there or something else.
 
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I just went back and looked at all of my initial replies, which were pretty respectful, and I think you're just saying that even though it's complete BS. Maybe consider than I'm actually curious to hear what other people think about the situation in Haiti. The only person I was extremely disrespectful to was you, and I then told you that I think you're entire post was disingenuous, which is fvcking boring. Come on, dude, you're better than that.

No disrespect, but you really need to read more about current affairs to better understand the key facts you are overlooking.
 
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When I asked why there was a border crisis, I was talking about the influx of Haitian refugees. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

When I asked why Trump was able to politicize it to his benefit, I suppose I underestimated the racism and lack of empathy in this country.

When I asked why it was being used against Biden, well, I already knew the answer, and it's not going to change. it is what it is, but I was honestly just hoping for some more insight into Haiti from this thread.

Goodness. Believing in an orderly system of immigration doesn’t make one a racist nor does it mean they lack empathy. If that is the lens though which you are going to view these issues, you should drop all the “genuine curiosity” bologna and just state that the intention of this thread is to bait someone into saying something that you can construe into racism so that you can get your daily fix of feigned moral superiority.
 
Good lord, almighty, this is the problem I'm talking about in the original post. The point is to look to the crux of the problem. Why is there a border crisis? Why was Trump able to politicize it to his benefit? Why is it being used against Biden disingenuously, politically (and I'm not saying Biden has been good with the border, because he's pretty much sucked a fat d!ck as president, and this is coming from a Democrat).

I was just hoping to hear from some people who might have some deep thoughts on Haiti, and I don't want it to be political.

because they’re not coming from Haiti. That’s the problem.
 
Cartels are recruiting all over south and Central America. They’re lying to people, basically saying Joe Biden is welcoming everyone with open arms. It’s one of their major revenue streams now.

Now as far as why they’re fleeing Haiti in the first place, I don’t know if simply terrible conditions there or something else.
Most of the Haitians arriving at the border now we’re relocated to central or South America by American NGOs following the 2010 earthquake.
 
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