The US should go defend Ukraine
- Thread starter Beer Donkey
- Start date
I feel like if this clip ended with “and Rohan will sanction Mordor” it pretty much sum up Biden
Nope! Support them sure, fight for them ? I don’t think they would want that.
We don’t have a border and entering in a war with Russia is not smart. If we refuse to produce oil and gas to bankrupt Russia we have no business trying to fight them in a war in Europe. Europe needs to fix this. They’re the ones who have made the decision to depend on Russia for fuel. We are too stupid to not do the same but that’s no reason to go to war outside this country. We have enough problems
shouldn't we stop buying Ruskie oil and ol dementia start producing again? Oh, and get the Germans to stop buying it as well?
let's start with low-hanging fruit before BeerDonkey heads over to Ukraine and picks up a rifle
let's start with low-hanging fruit before BeerDonkey heads over to Ukraine and picks up a rifle
On thought is:
A.) we stop buying
B.) Russia cuts off Europe in retaliation
C.) How strong really is our alliance with those now freezing whilst Suburban Suzy complains online about $6 gas in her SUV
I think BDB summed up my thoughts. You stop buying oil from Russia they fade away. I realize that can't happen over night but we have to start moving in that direction. Force a change in leadership economically and then you can start buying again from the next guy, hopefully.
I wish the Ukrainians good luck. I mean I grew up as big a fan of Red Dawn as there ever was, but I was 10 years old. Going to war with Russia doesn't seem nearly as cool now. (although going down in a hail of gunfire like Robert would still be a pretty boss way to go out).
Don’t you make this complicated. AY has all the angles covered with no room for argument.
EXPORTS
The top exports of Russia are Crude Petroleum ($123B), Refined Petroleum ($66.2B), Petroleum Gas ($26.3B),
Coal Briquettes($17.6B), and Wheat ($8.14B), exporting mostly to China ($58.1B), Netherlands ($41.7B), Belarus ($20.5B), Germany ($18.9B), and Italy($16.7B).
In 2019, Russia was the world's biggest exporter of Wheat ($8.14B), Semi-Finished Iron ($6.99B), Coal Tar Oil ($4.49B), Raw Nickel($4.03B), and Nitrogenous Fertilizers ($3.05B)
for whatever this link is worth…
The top exports of Russia are Crude Petroleum ($123B), Refined Petroleum ($66.2B), Petroleum Gas ($26.3B),
Coal Briquettes($17.6B), and Wheat ($8.14B), exporting mostly to China ($58.1B), Netherlands ($41.7B), Belarus ($20.5B), Germany ($18.9B), and Italy($16.7B).
In 2019, Russia was the world's biggest exporter of Wheat ($8.14B), Semi-Finished Iron ($6.99B), Coal Tar Oil ($4.49B), Raw Nickel($4.03B), and Nitrogenous Fertilizers ($3.05B)
for whatever this link is worth…
Wiki, FWIW:
In 2016, the oil-and-gas sector accounted for 36% of federal budget revenues.
en.m.wikipedia.org
In 2016, the oil-and-gas sector accounted for 36% of federal budget revenues.
Economy of Russia - Wikipedia
UUUHH, No I think not. Our boys don't need to die in a fight that is pitting one corrupt totalitarian government against another.
They have nuclear weapons and will use them if we (NATO) get actively involved. What you do is strangle them economically -- which means cutting off their energy exports -- and the Russian people will take care of the problem. And, while they're getting the nerve up to do it, supply the hell out of the Ukrainians so they can keep making the Russians bleed.
While my first inclination was to make that convoy look like it's smoking and burning on the road out of Kuwait, logic and consequence prevailed. Cripple the oligarchs enough financially and economically isolate Russia long enough, they will have no choice but to move on from Putin. Unfortunately, Ukraine may have to be the Knight sacrificed on the board to keep playing. If Russia does take Ukraine, they will have forces tied up there for years fighting the resistance (which we should continue to supply).
I will say I would love to see a squadron of A10s eliminate the 40 mile long column of vehicles moving towards Kiev.
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrpt
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrpt
The wild card in this... is Putin deranged enough, as many have seemed to become to believe, that he would scorch the earth before leaving or losing power.
So I am really wondering what is the importance of the modern day NATO. 30 countries. Most are over in Europe and Asia. Get a coalition of this group and go face Russia if that is the plan (lots of people screaming for it). They should be able to face Putin if they unify. Nope, the fall back is just to get us involved with everyone else following. If they can't do this united as a group then what are they really worth?
We need to be held back because the other head of this beast, the larger one, is waiting for an opening. If we get involved in Ukraine I am pretty sure China goes after Taiwan and we are in a two front war. we can help the Ukrainian front with weapons and sanctions but we don't need to be involved to help keep China at bay.
And I wonder how really smart we are in this. Simple solution is to increase oil production and start selling to Europe to cut off Putin's money flow but the current administration keeps citing green energy. I don't think war is very green.
We need to be held back because the other head of this beast, the larger one, is waiting for an opening. If we get involved in Ukraine I am pretty sure China goes after Taiwan and we are in a two front war. we can help the Ukrainian front with weapons and sanctions but we don't need to be involved to help keep China at bay.
And I wonder how really smart we are in this. Simple solution is to increase oil production and start selling to Europe to cut off Putin's money flow but the current administration keeps citing green energy. I don't think war is very green.
If Putin is as unstable and deranged as he seems to be, we don't engage directly and thereby potentially provoke a nuclear attack. If we shoot down a plane, take out their soldiers, etc., we are at war. Highly unlikely he can beat us through conventional as opposed to nuclear warfare. I don't want to see D.C., New York, Houston, Chicago, etc. as nuclear wastelands much less the majority of Russia after our counterattack.
We don't really buy Russian oil. We are oil independent. The only time we DO buy foreign oil is to blend it with our light sweet crude. The reason you do that is because we built, re-built, upgraded refineries to handle heavy sour crudes like Mexican, Venezuelan, Brazilian, etc. Many refineries just won't handle a total slate of light sweet crude. You don't have a choice unless you want to spend say a $1 billion dollars over say 2 years to fully convert to a 100% light slate. Just won't happen. OH, and we aren't buying Venezuelan either.
We can stop buying Russian crude (and have btw), but when you take the 2nd largest producer in the world off-line, you affect the Brent price (world price) and that affects WTI. Everyone's price goes up. The Europeans simply don't have enough oil and or gas production to meet their own needs. Russia just made sense geographically. They will continue to buy gas to a large degree to heat their homes until we and others can provide enough LNG. That simply will not happen over night. So, the oil will have to come from others such as the Middle East, west Africa, and us.
The Russian army is a joke. 1 year conscripts (really BAD idea). Broken down trucks, howitzers, and tanks along the road (what the hell have they been doing with regard to maintenance and preparedness?).
And 40 mile long columns, BUMPER TO BUMPER. A-10's, F-16's, even F-35's would have a field day providing close air support.
Son...Russians don't take a dump without a (BAD) plan.
As bad as the plan was in Iraq in 2003 (storm the country, disarm the military, then….hell, we’ll figure it out), this is exponentially worse. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is becoming really dangerous for Russia because it’s proving that they are incompetent at ground combat and their Air Force is fourth rate. He’s rattling the nuclear saber because it’s all he has at this point.
The derangement syndrome is strong with this one.
Looks like we were importing ~20mm bbls/mo in 2021.
I agree. USA does not get into another war. The Russians aren't coming here. We found out before when we try to help out a nation in war we can't get out for decades perhaps. We have a lot of stimulus checks to pay for....Sanctions are going to have to work.
Agree completely. Putin is alleging that everything we do (i.e., sending military aid, humanitarian aid, applying economic sanctions, etc.) is an act of aggression. Then after accusing us of being aggressive, he not so subtly threatens us with nuclear weapons. He cannot keep using the nuclear option to get his way. Otherwise, let's just lay down our arms now and invite him to take the whole world.
I would allow Zelensky to gain immediate membership into NATO. If the NATO nations did not agree, I would sign a mutual defense treaty with Ukraine while the government still exits. (In a few days, Putin will take Kviv and install a new government, so we have to act now or forever lose Ukraine.) I think Putin is bluffing and would not use nuclear weapons. However, I'm 72 years old, so it's a little easier for me to take that gamble.
We don't have to have it. If you're a buyer for refinery or petrochem plant and they have a deal, you buy it. Capitalism. And we export a lot of oil now too.
I didn’t say anything about Trump, believe it or not, I can dislike Biden and also not be a Trump supporter.
Also, every President for the past 22 years has mishandled Russia and Putin. We missed the opportunity to prevent this from happening under Bush and then under Obama and then under Trump and now under Biden.
The west was too scared to stand up to Putin for fear of a conflict they now can’t ignore and it will only become harder and harder to fix as time goes on.
Our foreign policy with Russia has sucked for over twenty years, The chickens are coming home to roost
Hey, I read one yesterday with the premise, “wouldn’t a small scale nuclear war help against global warming?”
We’ve reached that level of stupid.
We are doing the right thing now. We finally just got out of war that cost $2.3 trillion and thousand of American lives to accomplished what?
Our own stock market would crater if we went to war with them for all the nuclear risk.
Our own stock market would crater if we went to war with them for all the nuclear risk.
so him potentially taking Ukraine is the same as invafing
Did we have Ukraine? How would we be losing it exactly?
you ready to send your grand kids over to Eastern Europe to absorb some thermobarric weaponry? Great points all around old guy.
It’s always been a good idea to send American kids to die when fighting Communists and you have a doddering old fool in the Oval Office.
Right? We just watched the Taliban stomp on Bidens dick on the way out of the last country we liberated. What kind of outcome do we expect if we dive in here?
