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The Border

I think its more an anti Trump movement. There is no way they think their policies toward our southern border is better.
 
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Dude no it doesn't.

Independents hate Trump. Independents hate Biden.

Our current political system caters to 20% on each far side and neglects the middle 60%.
Assuming you are right, most are going to vote for one or the other, The choice now is the guy who was effective no matter what the media said (and they are proven liars as every day goes on) or the guy that can't do anything no matter how much the media protects him. Look at the 10 point swings in VA and NJ and re-think that theory on independents.
 
The real question is if Biden thinks it's a mistake for Zylensky to leave the country to go meet with her, then why did they send her over to Munich?
 
With each Biden failure it shows how right Trump was. He gains independents every day.
As bad as Biden is, it’s hard to unequivocally argue Trump was right. His policy towards NATO didn’t instill confidence in the US commitment to European allies. I think that was Putin’s attraction to Trump. I agree that Trump’s border policy, support for US energy independence, and corporate tax policies were all positives. His embrace of right wing wackos, his boastful self centered views, his personal attacks and divisive leadership style, and his unwillingness to accept the election outcomes were all things that will keep a lot of independent voters from voting for him.
 
As bad as Biden is, it’s hard to unequivocally argue Trump was right. His policy towards NATO didn’t instill confidence in the US commitment to European allies. I think that was Putin’s attraction to Trump. I agree that Trump’s border policy, support for US energy independence, and corporate tax policies were all positives. His embrace of right wing wackos, his boastful self centered views, his personal attacks and divisive leadership style, and his unwillingness to accept the election outcomes were all things that will keep a lot of independent voters from voting for him.
VA and NJ again. If it's Trump vs Biden/Clinton they all aren't staying home. There may be a higher than normal stay home rate on Independents but it won't be all. Recent polls I have seen have independents 2-1 Trump over Biden.

And if trying to get NATO nations to pay more of an equal share doesn't install their confidence then I think we can do without their opinion if we are shouldering most the cost anyways. And It's amazing how the world is falling apart under Biden and under Trump things were relatively calm. You call it a attraction, maybe it's more a respect. Call it what you will it worked and is night and day from where we are now. Biden getting up daily saying OK, todays the day Putin invades...then nothing. Putin at this point I think is trolling. Ukraine doesn't seem too concerned. And when you think about the fact Russia has a hard time supporting their lands financially already, what would the point really be to take more.
 
As bad as Biden is, it’s hard to unequivocally argue Trump was right. His policy towards NATO didn’t instill confidence in the US commitment to European allies. I think that was Putin’s attraction to Trump. I agree that Trump’s border policy, support for US energy independence, and corporate tax policies were all positives. His embrace of right wing wackos, his boastful self centered views, his personal attacks and divisive leadership style, and his unwillingness to accept the election outcomes were all things that will keep a lot of independent voters from voting for him.
All depends on how much of what he said is validated in the next 2 yrs
 
Assuming you are right, most are going to vote for one or the other, The choice now is the guy who was effective no matter what the media said (and they are proven liars as every day goes on) or the guy that can't do anything no matter how much the media protects him. Look at the 10 point swings in VA and NJ and re-think that theory on independents.


Both of them suck. That's the truth. There is a way to lead. Trump was divisive. Biden is an idiot.

We can't do better than those two? Our system isn't producing the best options.
 
VA and NJ again. If it's Trump vs Biden/Clinton they all aren't staying home. There may be a higher than normal stay home rate on Independents but it won't be all. Recent polls I have seen have independents 2-1 Trump over Biden.

And if trying to get NATO nations to pay more of an equal share doesn't install their confidence then I think we can do without their opinion if we are shouldering most the cost anyways. And It's amazing how the world is falling apart under Biden and under Trump things were relatively calm. You call it a attraction, maybe it's more a respect. Call it what you will it worked and is night and day from where we are now. Biden getting up daily saying OK, todays the day Putin invades...then nothing. Putin at this point I think is trolling. Ukraine doesn't seem too concerned. And when you think about the fact Russia has a hard time supporting their lands financially already, what would the point really be to take more.
I didn’t have a problem with Trump encouraging European allies to pay their share to NATO. His refusal to say the US was committed to the alliance, and his comments about NATO no longer being relevant that sent a message that the US wasn’t as committed as it had historically been.
 
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his unwillingness to accept the election outcomes
brought to you by the same people who:
Spied on trump as president
Tried to make cuomo a hero
Told us Trump colluded with russia
Told us white supremacy was a real problem and that we needed to support BLM
Told us they were going to cure covid
Told us we needed to get vaccinated to live a normal life
Told us we needed to get boosted to live a normal life
Pushed for shutdowns and inherently insecure voting
Told us it was ok to gather in groups at the height of covid if it was to protest for social justice
Told us covid came from a wet market

I just don’t understand why he didn’t roll over and accept it
 
I didn’t have a problem with Trump encouraging European allies to pay their share to NATO. His refusal to say the US was committed to the alliance, and his comments about NATO no longer being relevant that sent a message that the US wasn’t as committed as it had historically been.
Is he loud and boisterous...yes. But all that is said to push the original issue which was the money. If NATO folded you think we would care more or Europe? So he crudely stated the obvious. Probably better than a creep whisper that ends up being a lie or some stupid tough guy story that is a lie because no true tough guy has to self promote.
 
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brought to you by the same people who:
Spied on trump as president
Tried to make cuomo a hero
Told us Trump collided with russia
Told us white supremacy was a real problem and that we needed to support BLM
Told us they were going to cure covid
Told us we needed to get vaccinated to live a normal life
Told us we needed to get boosted to live a normal life
Pushed for shutdowns and inherently insecure voting
Told us it was ok to gather in groups at the height of covid if it was to protest for social justice
Told us covid came from a wet market

I just don’t understand why he didn’t roll over and accept it
I hadn’t realized all those groups supported Trump not accepting the results. I learn something everyday.
 
brought to you by the same people who:
Spied on trump as president
Tried to make cuomo a hero
Told us Trump colluded with russia
Told us white supremacy was a real problem and that we needed to support BLM
Told us they were going to cure covid
Told us we needed to get vaccinated to live a normal life
Told us we needed to get boosted to live a normal life
Pushed for shutdowns and inherently insecure voting
Told us it was ok to gather in groups at the height of covid if it was to protest for social justice
Told us covid came from a wet market

I just don’t understand why he didn’t roll over and accept it
Conspiracies...or future telling, You be the judge.
 
brought to you by the same people who:
Spied on trump as president
Tried to make cuomo a hero
Told us Trump colluded with russia
Told us white supremacy was a real problem and that we needed to support BLM
Told us they were going to cure covid
Told us we needed to get vaccinated to live a normal life
Told us we needed to get boosted to live a normal life
Pushed for shutdowns and inherently insecure voting
Told us it was ok to gather in groups at the height of covid if it was to protest for social justice
Told us covid came from a wet market

I just don’t understand why he didn’t roll over and accept it
Look, if you’re justifying Trump’s refusal to accept the election results because of this list, we aren’t likely to agree. I suspect a lot of independent voters won’t agree, either. The first 3 items on your list I could agree with. Most of the rest are the products of the wacko right wing conspiracy talking heads. Equating encouraging vaccines to a conspiracy against Trump is ironic, given that Trump did the right thing in pushing the research that developed the MRNA vaccines. How that got politicized will be the subject for historians to resolve.
 
Look, if you’re justifying Trump’s refusal to accept the election results because of this list, we aren’t likely to agree. I suspect a lot of independent voters won’t agree, either. The first 3 items on your list I could agree with. Most of the rest are the products of the wacko right wing conspiracy talking heads. Equating encouraging vaccines to a conspiracy against Trump is ironic, given that Trump did the right thing in pushing the research that developed the MRNA vaccines. How that got politicized will be the subject for historians to resolve.
Suggesting that the left told us we could have a normal life if we get vaccinated is not “the product of right wing wacko conspiracy talking heads”.

That left-leaning states had more lockdowns that right-leaning isn’t a conspiracy theory.

that voting without ID is inherently insecure isn’t a conspiracy theory.

that we were told by the media that covid came from a wet market isn’t a conspiracy theory.
 
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Suggesting that the left told us we could have a normal life if we get vaccinated is not “the product of right wing wacko conspiracy talking heads”.
I guess I wasn’t aware it was the left telling us that. I heard that from medical professionals who were expressing an apolitical medical opinion. The statistics thus far seem to support the fact that vaccinated people represented ~ 10% of those hospitalized and < 5% of those who died from COVID. Bottom line, I don’t think anyone understood COVID early on, including Trump when he shutdown the economy. I don’t blame him, or anyone else. The whole world was learning as we went along. I’m grateful to everyone who developed the vaccines so we are now able to manage to keep surges from overwhelming hospitals. Now we just need more people to get vaccinated.
 
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I guess I wasn’t aware it was the left telling us that. I heard that from medical professionals who were expressing an apolitical medical opinion. The statistics thus far seem to support the fact that vaccinated people represented ~ 10% of those hospitalized and < 5% of those who died from COVID. Bottom line, I don’t think anyone understood COVID early on, including Trump when he shutdown the economy. I don’t blame him, or anyone else. The whole world was learning as we went along. I’m grateful to everyone who developed the vaccines so we are now able to manage to keep surges from overwhelming hospitals. Now we just need more people to get vaccinated.
Everything this guy just said is bullshit
 
I hate this ****….don’t get me started or I guarantee my response will cause this thread to get moved to the main board….effing whore!
 
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